Why do we have classes AND jobs again?

[Valmonte]

So you're asking for jobs to get abilities outside of their specialization, to make a job be able to do anything...aren't you just asking for classes and not jobs then?

I'm starting to question is people really know what the difference between jobs and classes are...

Take away the AF and the Job Title and what have you got. a class with class specific abilitys

[whoopeeragon]

Take away the AF and the Job Title and what have you got. a class with class specific abilitys

So now you're ignoring the strength of the armoury system, the option to obtain skills from all the other disciplines...? You're furthering my suspicion that you don't know the difference between the job and armoury system is. Not to mention overlooking the potential.

Some of us think that they should just have made jobs permanant upgrades to classes and kept the diversity. The emphasis to perform a certain job in a party can then be elected via new abilities which inevitably take up ability slots and force you to a specific behavior without the need of the class/job separation. But this may be to your point...

Yea...what happens if you do that? You get a Bard who can sing songs but deal heavy damage with Blood for Blood, access to even higher TP gain with Invigorate, three AoE attacks when you put in Leg Sweep? A Paladin who can deal high amounts of damage with high accuracy with Hawk's Eye, regain lots of TP, while having innate high defence and survivability skills? A WHM who already can heal themselves tremendously having the ability to nuke harder and further with Resonance, Sanguine Rite, and two additional enmity- moves with Chameleon and Quelling Strike meaning more Cure-bombs...

....Doesn't that sound way overpowered to you? In that case, why bother differentiating between jobs and classes at all? Why not just have one discipline to have everything at your fingertips? Why BOTHER with any differences?

[Colvin]

....Doesn't that sound way overpowered to you? In that case, why bother differentiating between jobs and classes at all? Why not just have one discipline to have everything at your fingertips? Why BOTHER with any differences?

Not really. Honestly, in a situation like that it seems like an error on the part of skill/ability balancing. The challange is to design an environment where various ability combinations all have viable use.

But I am also a fan of letting people be a little overpowered at times. There is accomplishment in discovering a combo that makes you a bad-a**

[whoopeeragon]

Not really. Honestly, in a situation like that it seems like an error on the part of skill/ability balancing. The challange is to design an environment where various ability combinations all have viable use.

But I am also a fan of letting people be a little overpowered at times. There is accomplishment in discovering a combo that makes you a bad-a**

Problem is you can't have everything for nothing. The armoury system and job system have their own strengths and weaknesses. They're not meant to BLEND together to form one system that can take from both, which is what you're asking.

Armoury system - greater ability to choose what skills you want on your class, diverse options to shape your class as you want, but lose any true specialised form of a role. Meaning solo/light party works well, but tough battles with a specialised focus is not ideal for classes.

Job system - greater effects of specialisation, but lower diverse skills to actively use to complement the specialisation. Meaning in situations where your specialisation is countered or rendered null, your job is useless.

without traits from the class your using that skill from those skills are only partially effective or completely useless. armory system has no strength it was/is a terrible idea that will only serve to limit distinction and versatility.

Umm...the traits only beef up those skills. The skills serve fine - Sentinel, Sanguine Rite, Blood for Blood, Second Wind, Cure, Protect, Stoneskin, Quelling Strike, Raging Strike, Leg Sweep, Resonance...you can't mean to tell me that without traits, every single one of them is useless? Sure, Conjurer's traits means that Cure and Protect and Stoneskin are much potent, but how are they not effective on other classes? Cure heals your HP. Protect gives boost to defence. Stoneskins increases your HP gauge behind the scenes. How is that useless?

Armoury system is the DEFINITION of versatility. Just because a skill isn't as potent on the other classes doesn't mean they can't be put on. Job system is the OPPOSITE of versatility. You don't even have the CHOICE to put on so many abilities as the armoury system does.

They could do so much more too... like.. Ionno.. let Gladiators equip more than just swords... like... gladitors do...?

Oh, in regards to weapons, that's a massive flaw by locking weapon type to classes and jobs. But I was more in terms of abilities, content and actual usage in battle that I said about potential.

[Valmonte]

So now you're ignoring the strength of the armoury system, the option to obtain skills from all the other disciplines...? You're furthering my suspicion that you don't know the difference between the job and armoury system is. Not to mention overlooking the potential.

without traits from the class your using that skill from those skills are only partially effective or completely useless. armory system has no strength it was/is a terrible idea that will only serve to limit distinction and versatility.