Why do we have classes AND jobs again?

[NoloeTazier]

Goodness, I wasn't aware there was already a thread or I might have resurrected that. (I guess I should have thought about it).

Anyways, I think RDM from GLD, and DRK from WAR would make more sense. You just make 2-handed swords and scythes that are pretty much axes (from a database perspective) with different models. Not that I am defending the system... just saying.

For the RDM magic, you would have CNJ and THM as your minimum 15 classes so you have SOME magic, then add dots and -EN spells... you know... if they wanted to go the FFXI route.

I know some people that have pretty much built RDM using GLD and it really showed the diversity of GLD, but that brings in the point, if you can make RDM with GLD as it is now, why not just have RDM and get rid of GLD...?

lol its all good, the topic always pops up from time to time.

Problem with taking Red Mage from Gladiator again is the Armory and Class system. Red Mage would have no use with the majority of abilities unless it was a new tanking job. The only 'real' way to make Red Mage is to build it from a whole new Class. Such as examples in the past: Fencer -> Red Mage. Just like we can't have Summoner without building a whole new Class i.e. Arcanist. Many new jobs we want, will have to come from base Classes because there's just no way to branch them off what we currently have. (except for my example of Ranger, Ranger would be able to branch off Archer without too much difference, but that will be a rare case)

[Colvin]

Problem with taking Red Mage from Gladiator again is the Armory and Class system. Red Mage would have no use with the majority of abilities unless it was a new tanking job. The only 'real' way to make Red Mage is to build it from a whole new Class. Such as examples in the past: Fencer -> Red Mage. Just like we can't have Summoner without building a whole new Class i.e. Arcanist. Many new jobs we want, will have to come from base Classes because there's just no way to branch them off what we currently have. (except for my example of Ranger, Ranger would be able to branch off Archer without too much difference, but that will be a rare case)

I'm not so sure, alot of the GLD abilities I would still use, (more so if they didnt restrict sub abilities so much with jobs) like shield bash. People would have to just change their notions about how RDM plays. I worked my gear off to play RDM Melee in FFXI and most people still treated it is a back-row class regardless of the fact that in most FF games it ISNT back row. GLD basis might give it a chance to be a little more front row. Also, we dont know how they are changing the base abilities in ARR... maybe they will have forethought enough to address some of your issues...?

[whoopeeragon]

lol its all good, the topic always pops up from time to time.

Problem with taking Red Mage from Gladiator again is the Armory and Class system. Red Mage would have no use with the majority of abilities unless it was a new tanking job. The only 'real' way to make Red Mage is to build it from a whole new Class. Such as examples in the past: Fencer -> Red Mage. Just like we can't have Summoner without building a whole new Class i.e. Arcanist. Many new jobs we want, will have to come from base Classes because there's just no way to branch them off what we currently have. (except for my example of Ranger, Ranger would be able to branch off Archer without too much difference, but that will be a rare case)

Thing is, that the armoury system also lays out having multiple jobs stem from one class. GLA can become Elementalist, ARC as you said can become Ranger, PGL can become Berserker, LNC can become Dark Knight, CNJ can become Geomancer, THM can become Scholar, Fencer can become Red Mage or Mystic Knight, Arcanist can become Summoner or Time Mage...

The armoury system just needs some small changes, addition and removal and change of abilities, to actively see a large part in it. Just streamline the armoury and job system and they will complement one another.

And when I say removal, I get another idea with class <-> job changes; when you change to a job, you lose the ability to use an ability which is not part of your specialisation. Say for example, Ranger and Bard from Archer. As Ranger focuses more on damage and Bard on support, when they change from Archer, Ranger loses ability to cast Swiftsong, and Bard loses Raging Strike.

[Colvin]

As Ranger focuses more on damage and Bard on support, when they change from Archer, Ranger loses ability to cast Swiftsong, and Bard loses Raging Strike.

See that doesnt sound diverse enough to me to be actual separate classes... seems like seperate ability tiers at BEST

[Reika]

Goodness, I wasn't aware there was already a thread or I might have resurrected that. (I guess I should have thought about it).

Anyways, I think RDM from GLD, and DRK from WAR would make more sense. You just make 2-handed swords and scythes that are pretty much axes (from a database perspective) with different models. Not that I am defending the system... just saying.

For the RDM magic, you would have CNJ and THM as your minimum 15 classes so you have SOME magic, then add dots and -EN spells... you know... if they wanted to go the FFXI route.

I know some people that have pretty much built RDM using GLD and it really showed the diversity of GLD, but that brings in the point, if you can make RDM with GLD as it is now, why not just have RDM and get rid of GLD...?

I said in another thread that MRD is a terrible idea to become DRK. there are more than the 5 Job skills that DRK would need added to make it a DRK, and MRD only has Bloodbath, no magic. It would also have more too much HP. DRK needs its own class to level up, so does RDM, because GLD doesnt have anything a RDM would use. It would make it a tank class because that is what kind of skills GLD has.

[Colvin]

I said in another thread that MRD is a terrible idea to become DRK. there are more than the 5 Job skills that DRK would need added to make it a DRK, and MRD only has Bloodbath, no magic. It would also have more too much HP. DRK needs its own class to level up, so does RDM, because GLD doesnt have anything a RDM would use. It would make it a tank class because that is what kind of skills GLD has.

given the changes in ARR, couldnt they redistribute the MRD abilities, add a few more and put most of the magic as the DRK abilities you get? Also, the HP problem is easily solved by just adjusting your stats when you equip the stone (or however they do it). dont you think...?

[Reika]

given the changes in ARR, couldnt they redistribute the MRD abilities, add a few more and put most of the magic as the DRK abilities you get? Also, the HP problem is easily solved by just adjusting your stats when you equip the stone (or however they do it). dont you think...?

But they arent likely to do that. I am also in disagreemant about not giving us new classes to level up, so they should add new classes based on just that.

[whoopeeragon]

I direct you to this thread which is also quite recent and expands on plenty of suggestions and ideas:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...espective-Jobs

Personally, I'm very accepting of both systems because in the end, they're independent of one another save for the lvl 30 branching off. It's just that 1.0 didn't expand on the class system much - they aren't enough abilities to complement the versatility that classes were meant to be. This is one aspect I'll much like them to look into from vanilla FFXIV, where classes were probably TOO versatile (coughthaumaturgecough) but they could try and reflect that.

Current 1.0 did not handle classes as well as expected, but the potential still lies in that classes can become very formidable with versatility. For instance, PvP is one I can think of, but even outside of PvP, small parties or solo adventuring through the game, classes could be much better than jobs.

Classes need more abilities, more class-only abilities that can only be used by classes. Jobs have their own specialised abilities which unlock with quests - classes could potentially do the same at the same levels, except majority of those abilities should be able to be used by other classes. Many abilities from vanilla FFXIV I would love to see come back as class-specific abilities because they complemented well with the versatility, which is what classes is really in the end, strong for.

Yes, you can argue that RDM is as versatile as can come, so why not scrap the armoury system and go with RDM? Problem is, as versatile RDM is, it can't match up to how versatile a class can be. Sure, you can chuck CNJ and THM abilities onto a GLA and off you go. But what about the other classes' abilities? Featherfoot and Second Wind from PGL? Bloodbath from MRD? AoE skills from LNC? TP gain with quelling strike from ARC? There's so many ways that classes can become versatile even WITH the current system, as limiting in class-options as it is.

We already have an implication that FFXIV: ARR will have new abilities (Conjurer discipline has Water spell in alpha). We are also getting arcanist with debuffs which will aid immensely in solo/light party situations where debuffing will lead to easier fights. Systems are going to change come ARR, job system and armoury system. So we can wait for the information before we really debate this point - especially since the point for current 1.0 is null as 1.0 has officially ended.

[Colvin]

I direct you to this thread which is also quite recent and expands on plenty of suggestions and ideas:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...espective-Jobs

Well do we want to bring the old one back up? Honestly, if people are still on the forums, it means they have nothing else to do. This isnt like any other game release where there is floods of new material coming out with fuel for speculation so most of us, I think, have very little to do.

So speculate on! you are bored enough to be here ! :P

[Zenaku]

Each class would have two Jobs for example GLA could become pld or Dark knight that one of the example yoshi-p said. So class is the base of the job system without it they wont be a link to more jobs being one class.