The growing entitlement issues of the casuals

[Alexis_Arteme]

I enjoy being in a group of casual players doing pushover content and socializing while doing it. Throw in a tangible reward, and I'm double happy. Difficulty simply segregates the insane from the normal, and assures nobody has any fun.

Trust me, when you're in a scheduled raid three nights a week and getting screamed at by a 34 year old in his parent's basement for not being at the right place at the right time - you're not having fun. But many love to try to convince themselves they are.

[Mishakai]

I enjoy being in a group of casual players doing pushover content and socializing while doing it. Throw in a tangible reward, and I'm double happy. Difficulty simply segregates the insane from the normal, and assures nobody has any fun.

Trust me, when you're in a scheduled raid three nights a week and getting screamed at by a 34 year old in his parent's basement for not being at the right place at the right time - you're not having fun. But many love to try to convince themselves they are.

No offense, but it sounds to me like you were in a crappy guild.

I was raiding 7 nights a week.. filling 40 slots per raid.. there wasn't any yelling (unless vent got too chatty and we actually needed to get people to shut up cause it was time to pull or something).. There was lots of laughing, drinking, more dieing than I care to recall, some arguing over technique after multiple failed attempts at a boss... But that shows passion in what you are doing!!!

Trust me, when you're in a scheduled raid, 7 nights a week, and people are playing a game, not getting screamed at, and not stressing over things, you *are* having fun.

[Akumu]

thats fine, we realize difficult = better
but some people are dont even want to spend ANY time at all, it almost sounds like they believe they should start at rank 50, with access to everything. And that is where the arguement is at now.

Its not about who has access to what, but some people thinking that they should be able to play for 1 hour and make the same progress someone playing for 10+ hours makes.

Thevedis and others alike are missing the one problem with your views on casuals. You aren't referring to the casuals that want easy content but the small group of individuals that might want said content. Wanting huge time sinks also does not make you hardcore. Both sides have a small niche that seems to want something that isn't worth the Dev teams focus to bring this game into prosperity.

Hardcore(the niche group) wants major time sinks on almost everything so THEY can have fun.
Casual (niche group) wants easy mode [I WIN BUTTON] content.

Both sides have stronger supporters that want challenging and engaging content. Not huge time sinks or easy mode buttons since those are not the paths that create an engaging experience for the majority. Modern MMOs should not use huge time sinks or easy content to attract people. Attracting to the majority is rather simple since the grey area is very common for True Hardcore AND Casual gamers. Not just people that are lazy or have the ability to play 22hrs a day.

[TheVedis]

Thevedis and others alike is missing one problem with your views on casuals. You aren't referring to the casuals that want easy content but the small group of individuals that might want said content. Wanting huge time sinks also does not make you hardcore. Both sides have a small niche that seems to want something that isn't worth the Dev teams focus to bring this game into prosperity.

Hardcore(the niche group) wants major time sinks on almost everything so THEY can have fun.
Casual (niche group) wants easy mode [I WIN BUTTON] content.

Both sides have stronger supporters that want challenging and engaging content. Not huge time sinks or easy mode buttons since those are not the paths that create an engaging experience for the majority. Modern MMOs should not use huge time sinks or easy content to attract people. Attracting to the majority is rather simple since the grey area is very common for True Hardcore AND Casual gamers. Not just people that are lazy or the life to play 22hrs a day.

actualy, we realize what the arguement is, but look at the last few pages especialy and you will see the true face of what the hardcores are trying to avoid

a bunch of posters saying, quite specificaly, that they should be able to achieve in 1 hour, what it takes hardcores several hours to do. Purely because they dont have as much time to commit to it.

[AshelyRiot]

no matter what is done, someone will feel alienated and left out of something

someone will always complain about lack of content they can do, or how other people get more then they do

at this point i think you people in here are arguing for the sake of arguing(especialy you kilta, you do seem to enjoy doing that)




lets face facts, if you do not have the time, you just plain do not have the time, do not use that as a crutch

I so agree with your statement

[Mishakai]

actualy, we realize what the arguement is, but look at the last few pages especialy and you will see the true face of what the hardcores are trying to avoid

a bunch of posters saying, quite specificaly, that they should be able to achieve in 1 hour, what it takes hardcores several hours to do. Purely because they dont have as much time to commit to it.

Which is why I stress equal rewards for equal time invested. If I spend 20 hours successfully killing a boss in a group and someone else spends 20 hours successfully killing a boss solo, the difficulty of which is equivalent based on group size, the item rewards should also be equivalent. It is a simple concept that, for some reason, both sides seem to want to argue against.

[TheVedis]

Which is why I stress equal rewards for equal time invested. If I spend 20 hours successfully killing a boss in a group and someone else spends 20 hours successfully killing a boss solo, the difficulty of which is equivalent based on group size, the item rewards should also be equivalent. It is a simple concept that, for some reason, both sides seem to want to argue against.

yep, in that case 20 people have to split the prize
the guy who solos it has it all to himself

[Kaedan]

Thevedis and others alike are missing the one problem with your views on casuals. You aren't referring to the casuals that want easy content but the small group of individuals that might want said content. Wanting huge time sinks also does not make you hardcore. Both sides have a small niche that seems to want something that isn't worth the Dev teams focus to bring this game into prosperity.

Hardcore(the niche group) wants major time sinks on almost everything so THEY can have fun.
Casual (niche group) wants easy mode [I WIN BUTTON] content.

Both sides have stronger supporters that want challenging and engaging content. Not huge time sinks or easy mode buttons since those are not the paths that create an engaging experience for the majority. Modern MMOs should not use huge time sinks or easy content to attract people. Attracting to the majority is rather simple since the grey area is very common for True Hardcore AND Casual gamers. Not just people that are lazy or have the ability to play 22hrs a day.

I agree with this.

actualy, we realize what the arguement is, but look at the last few pages especialy and you will see the true face of what the hardcores are trying to avoid

a bunch of posters saying, quite specificaly, that they should be able to achieve in 1 hour, what it takes hardcores several hours to do. Purely because they dont have as much time to commit to it.

I have a feeling a lot of the people you are referring to belong to the [I want a Win Button] niche camp. Not all Casuals are like that.

Again, I brought it up before, but people make unfair assumptions about players who are X or Y. Should I assume that all Black people want to eat Fried Chicken every night? (please don't take offense, just using a ridiculous example to illustrate a point)

[Akumu]

actualy, we realize what the arguement is, but look at the last few pages especialy and you will see the true face of what the hardcores are trying to avoid

a bunch of posters saying, quite specificaly, that they should be able to achieve in 1 hour, what it takes hardcores several hours to do. Purely because they dont have as much time to commit to it.

You do have points that I do agree with. I am all for challenging content that might take some hours to do. However I am not for huge time sinks that can be easily avoided all together. True gamers in general(hardcore or casual) does not just want things handed to them but earned.
Most Casual gamers would rather use their time efficiently and progress without unnecessary time sinks. For example getting a group together is a time sink but understandable. Getting a group together and standing around in one spot waiting for something you MIGHT get is not efficient.

I would rather be strategically fighting mobs on a constantly changing battlefield for 3 hours instead of waiting around for 3hours to get 1 mob or item to pop up.

[TheVedis]

I agree with this.





I have a feeling a lot of the people you are referring to belong to the [I want a Win Button] niche camp. Not all Casuals are like that.

Again, I brought it up before, but people make unfair assumptions about players who are X or Y. Should I assume that all Black people want to eat Fried Chicken every night? (please don't take offense, just using a ridiculous example to illustrate a point)

people always get lumped into sterotypes

but my arguement in all this is plain and obvious

im not asking for casuals to be restricted in anything, im not asking for exclusive content

my whole arguement = time investment, if something is a time investment issue, then it is just that
regardless of wether or not you have time to do it or not, should not dictate its existance

also keep in mind im not talking about "long activities" either, 10 hour activity and something that takes 10 hours to do are different
that 10 hour activity is VERY casual unfriendly, whereas something that takes 10 hours of "time" to do that can be split up is casual friendly