SE stop doing the "norm"

[Starlord]

In XI you where forced to group to progress

That's one thing I disliked about XI but I put up with it, there are time I want to solo, but the fact that they are "forcing" you to do something to progress, is no different than what they did at 1.0 launch when they put that Fatigue Barrier up that only resets once a week. ( yes the two are entirely different, but they share a common goal " They both force you to do something to progress) Why can't it be progress in level the way you want to? Your just going to get to the same thing at the end ( Max-level).

I love XI for what it was and what it did, I just didn't like the fact the 95% of what you did require some sort of party to get anywhere. There are times I just want to solo/duo even trio. There are times where I don't want to be in a cluster of people wacking at a crab in Valkurm Dunes. I love Choices, to have the freedom to level the way I want to level, not a system that tells you you "NEED" to do this to progress in level.

All in all, It really all boils down to how they implement the way to progress in level, how they handle the quest system. I'm sure it will turn out great and put some unease minds to rest.

[Firon]

It's not the point.
Did you even bother to read the rest of the post or did you just stop at the first sentence?

Forget about grinding right now. Just, loose the whole concept. I'm talking about quest quality and variation.

As for skyrim, I quit that as soon as the quests just turned into "Go into this dungeon and fetch this drum for me." over and over and over.
But that's not important

I had to edit my post i responded to that part.

[Xmbei]

actually of all the wow games wow and clones... wow is the only one with unique fun different quests. On implementation, particularly post WotLK and then with the changed 1-60 areas post cata. There is "get in this unique war vehicle or on this dragon" and go kill things with special abilitys and not standard fighting. There is one where you kind of do a dog fight with other dragons, I thought that was cool. Or ones that when you complete certain parts the world phase changes and its different. Also yes they were quest hubs, that you got quests but you usually got them in "towns" where there is an Inn you grab quests go do them come back get more.. Just like your levequest example. The other thing is it is great storywise.... for example in WoW TBC and WotLK you are shipped off to a different world/continent to fight a major war... so in the middle of it you are just going to stop and tell the generals "Hey man, I need to run back to Home city!"? lol of course you do it for upgrades and such. If you hate these quest story chains that have a purpose for the story occuring, just because you want to be going back to the Home City even though that is not part of how the story was to progress... makes no sense. That is why there is other cities later in the game in these areas so that yes you still go back to a city.
I honestly don't care about the WoW taboo... its bull$*^% WoW does it well because there is an actual progression in THAT game... its clones just feel like they threw it together not caring about the uniqueness or storyline, that is why WoW also does better... because at least there is a good story while you are quest grinding to make it interesting and why you are killing these things because they are all quest chains with a penultimate conclusion to the chain. Clones... they just go oh heres a quest hub of kill x y time quests with no real purpose to the story. by level 10-30 WoW I knew what was going on in the world who the villan was what happened in the past and what they plan to do with these quests in the war effort to defeat the villain. While in TERA I was level 30 read the whole quest dialogues, and still had no idea what was going on in the world, each zone was a different story not connected to any over arching story it was rather dull... Played AION where they had quest hubs but leveling was way too slow... and the story (to me because of how slow it felt) was not compelling to keep me interested. SWTOR to me was fun till the 40's for me seeing all the different worlds... but the story told was rather week to explain why you had to do all these things "just for training" uhhhh I am level 30 I don't need that much training anymore... The questline story was bad the cs storyline was decent. RIFT... I couldn't even get past 10 because all I felt compelled to do was the RIFT events... and kept forgetting about progression of anything else... and I can say the RIFTs get boring after awhile so lost my interest.
So what I am saying is they need a compelling story to succeed and not beat us over the head with the "selling points" SWTOR, CutScenes, RIFT, the rifts, FFXIV 1.0 the Levequests.... they get tiresome quick because there is not any atmosphere outside of that or they are a constant repeat. WoW, the quest structure of kill x and y repeats (not all quests are this) or gathering items (not all quests are this) they have a compelling story, that actually acknowledges your character in the quest dialogue.... Like they call you by your current class, name, race... it actually makes me feel like they are talking to me. TERA quests (newest example) It felt like they were just talking to a generic person and not you... because they don't mention you at all... in the dialogue. Also going out on quests in WoW, where you are to go kill a person, and the NPC actually turns to you and talks down to you as a weakling and interrupting what they are doing, even going so far to say they know you and your name and using it, in the dialogue... That is awesome... so few MMO's do that now a-days you don't feel like your character is really there....
..... kind of like most FFXI quests... I felt like I was on a fly on the wall... just observing.

edit: lol.... that was a lot longer than intended my bad.... lol

[strallaalaa]

ffxi quests didn't feel like kill or fetch quests either. they were there but the quests were very diverse. they weren't about experience points, heck even the rewards for them were usually not worth the time. the stories were fun, many connected you to the npc in that house or city or the beastmen in the areas. they were fun to do inbetween all the grinding and crafting and endgame. and then on top of that there was tons of them with mini side bosses. tons and tons of them, ones if done at correct level witch no one really did would of probably took a full group and would be as epic as any boss. but even at max levels were fun to kill. lots of variety in them ...nothing like the ones in ffxiv. even wotg quests were tied to the missions, you did some missions then you couldn't go any farther without doing quests and they all linked story wise. like npc that makes remedies in old quest is tied to the past world to help make another remedy. very well thought out and fun to do.

i don't think you ever really took the time to play the ffxi quests or something, it's totally opposite. while in wow i only played to rank 40 and ran back to ffxi but i didn't read a dang quest in a box ..not a one. no cutsceens, no way of knowing what is true story or side story. all to me were walls of text that i just skiped. so totally 360 in what your saying. on top of all that if wow had side bosses and fights in them, those mobs with a different name lol, they all felt the same to me. no mobs in that games world feel different then the next.

and can't say this enough, making exp and quests the same/as one means no one is reading them, we all want to get to end game and skip it. least it's what most do. keeping them seperated like missions was perfect. you get your leveling, and you get your stories on the side. you could do them or you didn't have to. either way you still got your levels. putting them together is just a slick way to make people feel like they aren't grinding when they are and they are losing out on all the story in the world with it.

[Felis]

@strallaalaa:
Tell us again why you play a rpg if you don't want to read quest texts?
I mean if you skip the story then it is no surprise you find every quest boring.

[Antipika]

@strallaalaa:
Tell us again why you play a rpg if you don't want to read quest texts?
I mean if you skip the story then it is no surprise you find every quest boring.

Because in a lot of recent RPG, quests text has become stale. So lot of people tend to skip it? Should we make a list of RPG with decent gameplay but bad storyline and/or sidequests?

[strallaalaa]

@strallaalaa:
Tell us again why you play a rpg if you don't want to read quest texts?
I mean if you skip the story then it is no surprise you find every quest boring.

mmorpg means online roll playing game, the rpg's i play are packed in cut sceens that go with all the reading, wow does not. ffxi does. and i didn't say i don't read them i said i read every single one in ffxi. i didn't in wow or any of the clones or wannabe mmo's that came out after. it's all text, it doesn't seperate it from grinding to endgame. it doesn't seperate the main stories with just the kill quest stories. i can tell you the story for probably half the ffxi quests and how i loved them. from the thief in sandy that takes you chasing him all around the city all way out of the city. to the bastoke little girl and her father and me helping with finding the mother in finding she really is dead. i can even tell you the one longest quest in the ffxi story, some old lady in the tazmanian stronghold (think was name of taz) she rambles on probably 2 or 3 wow text blocks long lol.

so ...has nothing to do with not wanting to read them ..it's how they introduce them into the mmo and how good they are. it's not like i buy a rpg that is offline and don't read them, i read every npc ...and even these days offline rpg jump you straight to the quest or main story npc most the time.

[Xmbei]

mmorpg means online roll playing game, the rpg's i play are packed in cut sceens that go with all the reading, wow does not. ffxi does. and i didn't say i don't read them i said i read every single one in ffxi. i didn't in wow or any of the clones or wannabe mmo's that came out after. it's all text, it doesn't seperate it from grinding to endgame. it doesn't seperate the main stories with just the kill quest stories. i can tell you the story for probably half the ffxi quests and how i loved them. from the thief in sandy that takes you chasing him all around the city all way out of the city. to the bastoke little girl and her father and me helping with finding the mother in finding she really is dead. i can even tell you the one longest quest in the ffxi story, some old lady in the tazmanian stronghold (think was name of taz) she rambles on probably 2 or 3 wow text blocks long lol.

so ...has nothing to do with not wanting to read them ..it's how they introduce them into the mmo and how good they are. it's not like i buy a rpg that is offline and don't read them, i read every npc ...and even these days offline rpg jump you straight to the quest or main story npc most the time.

WoW doesn't seperate it because it leads up to end-game.... very few of it is just grinding. Now the clones thats a different story

[Nix]

so ...has nothing to do with not wanting to read them ..it's how they introduce them into the mmo and how good they are. it's not like i buy a rpg that is offline and don't read them, i read every npc ...and even these days offline rpg jump you straight to the quest or main story npc most the time.

Your post resonated with me a lot!

I do enjoy a good quest grind but I find XIV's and WoW's not so much hard to get into... but maybe not as appealing in their presentation.
I'll still religiously read all the text and enjoy the stories that go along with each quest but it feels like there's something 'extra' missing.

FFXI had it down pat, it had the text but it also had engaging mini-CS that would help to immerse you. I think the best MMO that I've played that /really/ had the immersion down was SWTOR, especially with their interactive cutscenes.

I'd love to see more things like that from developers nowadays instead of the lines upon lines of flavorless (I'm not sure if that's the right word) one-way dialogue.

I looking forward to more engaging quest chains where it revolves around more than just "Kill 8 dodo", mini storylines, more prominent characters and a whole new level of immersion.

I've thoroughly enjoyed XIV's storyline so far but the sidequests have left me feeling a little hollow (if that makes sense at all?)

[KiriA500]

FFXI had it down pat, it had the text but it also had engaging mini-CS that would help to immerse you.

Not to say it hasn't happened to you...but I've felt the exact opposite with all of these cutscenes. Having my character stumble around like an idiot who has no idea what's going on is hardly immersion in my opinion. Final Fantasy XI was notorious for this as well... You'd have an awesome cutscene, and all you can do is scratch your head and walk slowly.

Let's use the Futures Perfect cutscene as an example. What happens in this cutscene? EXPLOSIONS! FLIPS! MAGIC! BULLETS! Then there's you...literally standing still the entire time...half the time you aren't even on the screen. Your NPC helper is a swappable model, so why can't Square-Enix have an animation for our characters doing something more interesting than "be there?" I'd like to see my character be awesome every now and then...