SE stop doing the "norm"

[TomCarroll]

keeping them separated only give people twice the stuff to do and savor and enjoy.

False.

"Guys I need to AFK, my baby is awake"

"THIS IS THE LEVEL OF IMMERSION THAT I REQUIRE FROM AN ONLINE GAME! I DO ENJOY RELYING ON OTHERS TO LEVEL MY JOBS UP!"

If you could grind mobs solo in XI at the same rate you could grind in parties, I bet anything that 75% of people would have done that instead. You're kidding yourself if you think you weren't rushing to level cap in XI; every god damn party was about getting the best XP/hour...

[strallaalaa]

False.

"Guys I need to AFK, my baby is awake"

"THIS IS THE LEVEL OF IMMERSION THAT I REQUIRE FROM AN ONLINE GAME! I DO ENJOY RELYING ON OTHERS TO LEVEL MY JOBS UP!"

If you could grind mobs solo in XI at the same rate you could grind in parties, I bet anything that 75% of people would have done that instead. You're kidding yourself if you think you weren't rushing to level cap in XI; every god damn party was about getting the best XP/hour...

i didn't say i didn't rush to level in ffxi, it still took a full year to hit rank 75. my first day when the game launched i spent in city though doing quests, running around with others even that were doing the same quests. then i finally went outside to kill my first bunny outside of sandy. i treated ffxi like an RPG, it was my first mmo and i played it cause it was a FF title.

also people who afk in ffxi usually didn't go afk for longer then 5mins, any longer and /kick. it was way easy to replace them and have someone there b4 they even got back from afk. that or we all took a break cause it probably ment we was running for at least an hour or 2, not 5mins into getting to camp.

but your right, if it was doable solo ..no one would party. that is the problem with mmo's today. they need to force party play. that is why tanaka's 15man party grinds were awesome and just needed a huge fixing.

and like rokien said it's a mmo, we are supposed to be online playing together. if not make even endgame solo, so everyone doesn't need to depend on people leaving after 1 run. i'd be done with a mmo in a month if it was all solo cause i'd just play 16hrs a day by myself and others wouldn't be the cause of failures. people are the whole point. i'm not paying 16bucks for an offline game a month. i have a ps3 cause i refuse to pay monthly for online gaming like the 360 has. fuk all that.

[Rokien]

False.

"Guys I need to AFK, my baby is awake"

"THIS IS THE LEVEL OF IMMERSION THAT I REQUIRE FROM AN ONLINE GAME! I DO ENJOY RELYING ON OTHERS TO LEVEL MY JOBS UP!"

If you could grind mobs solo in XI at the same rate you could grind in parties, I bet anything that 75% of people would have done that instead. You're kidding yourself if you think you weren't rushing to level cap in XI; every god damn party was about getting the best XP/hour...

That can happen with any party.....

You should have to rely on people, it's an mmo, unlike gw2 where you don't even have to talk to anyone, heck I haven't talked to anyone in that game yet and I'm level 60

FALSE
I did not rush to level cap, nor did I on FFXIV. I didn't create parties(wich I created 98% of mine) were they focused on getting best exp an hour, I built my parties on stability so if one does go afk, we could keep going. I created my partys for quality. They were all successful, and everyone loved my parties, they were not the fastest, but we always kept at a good pace.

[TomCarroll]

they need to force party play...

...it's a mmo, we are supposed to be online playing together.

Forcing you to arbitrarily level in groups is stupid. People forget that you can quest with other people if you really wanted to. All online games should have some solo content, especially to further your own character's growth.

I just can't see how sitting at 1 camp for X hours is your idea of "Fun". Furthermore, why you assume that this is what other people want, is beyond me.

Leveling solo is not a "problem" in MMOs, it's a way to curve the leveling system, while allowing players to explore the world at the same time. I'm willing to admit that grinding mobs endlessly SHOULD be an option in this game; but only because a vocal minority wants it so badly.

You guys are absolutely correct; this is an MMO, we play with other people. However, if that's the case, then we shouldn't allow crafters to solo, nor should money making be a solo activity? The concept is absurd.

Regardless of how leveling is implemented, people are always the driving force behind any MMO. People are always required to kill the strongest monster, to participate in PvP arenas or Battlegrounds, to drive the server-economy and above all-else, socialize with. Just because you can level up by yourself, does not cheapen the experience at all, nor does it exempt ANY player from interacting with another.

[Starlord]

"Forcing people to do anything will piss people off" If I wanna solo and the game forces me to party all the time I will eventually leave the game, because there are days I just wanna be alone :P. Somedays, I don't want to be cluttered around people. Choices is what I like. Forcing and telling people how to play the game is frustrating, that shit gets annoying and fast.

[xXHalloweenTrixXx]

I think a person should be able to level solo but only to a certain extent or level (like within the late teens of their class so they get use to their abilities)... but beyond that point a party should be mandatory for steady exp gain and also so people can actually understand their roles within group play.

I don't see a point of logging into a mmorpg if all you will be doing is soloing and not interacting with others. Makes the world feel very bleh~

[strallaalaa]

Forcing you to arbitrarily level in groups is stupid. People forget that you can quest with other people if you really wanted to. All online games should have some solo content, especially to further your own character's growth.

I just can't see how sitting at 1 camp for X hours is your idea of "Fun". Furthermore, why you assume that this is what other people want, is beyond me.

it's no different them X amount of hours of running around doing quests or repeating the same dungeon. plus in ffxi you did the levels, you did the endgame, but there was lots of stuff to solo, tons of quests, side/mini bosses. half or more missions to solo, you could farm mats in hazardous places. lot of small party stuff too.

Leveling solo is not a "problem" in MMOs, it's a way to curve the leveling system, while allowing players to explore the world at the same time. I'm willing to admit that grinding mobs endlessly SHOULD be an option in this game; but only because a vocal minority wants it so badly.

add classes that can solo, ffxi had bst, pup, smn, and blm that you can solo all the way, only issue was there use for endgame witch is what mmo's should fix, have both party and solo classes but make them all viable at end game. exploring can still be done via quests and NM's and entrances to instances. ffxi did it very well, if every expansion you weren't exploring every single inch of zones with people doing quests and having fun you were not doing it right. you end up seeing every inch of ffxi if you did all the quests/missions. and they didn't have to be for exp. also rdm can solo almost anything in that game ..i know i killed tons of NM's that others could not with it.

You guys are absolutely correct; this is an MMO, we play with other people. However, if that's the case, then we shouldn't allow crafters to solo, nor should money making be a solo activity? The concept is absurd.

technically that is how it was, you need to buy other crafters items back then before they totally changed crafting. the main products needed multiple crafts to make them. also i think i read that party crafting was gonna be added if not mistaking but it was removed as an idea. as for money, like i said you needed multiple crafters i had 2 other friends that constantly fed me mats from there crafts while i fed them my craft and we all shared the sales for everything at the time. it's not forced and you dont' need to do it when you finally got tons of crafts but you could but forced methods of this i wouldn't' mind either.

Regardless of how leveling is implemented, people are always the driving force behind any MMO. People are always required to kill the strongest monster, to participate in PvP arenas or Battlegrounds, to drive the server-economy and above all-else, socialize with. Just because you can level up by yourself, does not cheapen the experience at all, nor does it exempt ANY player from interacting with another.

don't know about what mmo's you have played but all mmo's i've been playing in a month every guild is empty, almost never any talking in them. they log in just for the 2hr event every couple days if even. nothing beats all the shouting and playing around in zones like the dunes where every few feet another party was killing too. ghosts popping out to kill them lol. you dont get that stuff solo, if so you are alone. not fun. they should for sure have solo stuff, in ffxi i was solo half the day, but no matter what i always had timed events, i could party when i wanted to. i could jump on my bst when i felt like solo.

i just don't' agree at all, simple as that. your mmo and my mmo are 2 totally different games, they can yes make them for both but it will cost them twice as much time to make i'm sure. i won't mind paying for 25bucks a month for my mmo if that is what it would take and i'd play the same mmo for much longer too.

tldr, i doubt anyone on either side would change there mind so it's kinda moot point .. so we can all agree with one thing, it's the mmo companies faults and the expectations of how much profits need to be made lol. time to make a mmo for both or actually make different types of mmo's for different styels not same stuff with different story.

[Elexia]

Forcing and telling people how to play the game is frustrating, that shit gets annoying and fast.

People of this community have no problem forcing things on others if it's something they like or want..but will fight it if its something they no like.

[TomCarroll]

but beyond that point a party should be mandatory for steady exp gain and also so people can actually understand their roles within group play.

That's not a convincing argument for leveling in groups by grinding out mobs. I've said it before, and I'll continue to say it; leveling in FFXI was not indicative of learning your job for anything else but to level. Once you hit cap and started doing endgame stuffs, the rules all changed. Instanced dungeons will do a much better job of teaching players their roles in groups. Much better than XP grinding would. I think if more people saw this hands on, they'd agree.

[Jynx]

Forcing and telling people how to play the game is frustrating, that shit gets annoying and fast.

That's why a good MMO will have alot of content that can be completed with various group settings.

Some stuff for solo players
Some stuff for small groups
Some stuff for big groups
Some stuff for massive groups.

FFXI had tons of content and you always had something to do even if you were by yourself.

Solo- Craft, Gather, Explore, Map quests, quests, NM hunt
Small groups- Eco-Warrior, Limbus, BCNM, ENM, NM hunt
Large groups- Exp parties, BCNM, ENM, Salvage, Limbus, Assault, NM Hunt....ect.
Massive groups- Dynamis, Campaign, (Whatever the city defense in Zillart was called again) (WOTG region battles) HNM, BCNM, and much more.

Not all the content could be completed solo, nor did the game ever force you to party. But the game did force you do play with certain numbers when the situation required it. Leveling was not a solo task with the exceptions of a few jobs and one job made specificly for solo players it was a party task.

I don't see why one of the largest parts of playing a MMO should be relegated to solo status. Leveling should be your first experience with other players, the time you spend feeling out your jobs capabillities and limitations, the time you meet new people and gather connections for when you do reach the end of the game. But Nooo, leveling is treated as a hassle more than anything in this game, it's a useless tool that serves no purpose other than to waste time.

In FFXI leveling had a massive meaning in the game, FFXIV it means next to nothing to the point that it's useless and confusing why it's even in the game in the first place. If a function of your game serves as nothing but a anoying barrier to get to the "Fun stuff" your doing something wrong.