SE stop doing the "norm"

[Dannythm]

Well they're not clones at all though, that's the entire point. And yeah, quoting another website with your exact argument pre-made is ok with me. In fact it just shows how common your fallacious point of view is. If you look into anything with that mindset then everything is a clone. The term clone itself is incorrect as each of those games is significantly different.

Similarities does not a clone make.

And I'm not defending XIV because it doesn't deserve to be defended. 1.0 was terrible, buggy and several steps back from the accepted quality of MMO's today.

2.0's questing system is pretty much the only thing that's similar to wow (we haven't even seen that much, so I don't know why people are jumping to conclusions.)

Now we are talking. I'll admit that my use of the term "clones" is incorrect, but there is no way to deny that all these games were made based on the same concept, the one that Everquest presented and the one that WoW popularized. None of them tries to break the mold, that's why some people are calling "playing it safe" and "WoW clones", because the underlying gameplay is exactly the same, take or add a given gimmick. I had fun with some of those games, I didn't with others, but I know I enjoyed FFXI and WoW the most, and I'm sad to see how WoW after BC became well... a different game, still I enjoy it even know.

I'm not saying that using a concept that is proven is bad, or will result in bad games, and if you review my posts I've never judged 2.0 yet, I'm just saying I fear to find the same old stuff, even if it's good. What FFXIV in it's original conception attracted me was the new concepts, the new ideas trying to evolve the way mmorpgs are played and understood, insted now I'm getting the feeling that we are coming back to the Everquest formula with gimmicks, even if it's more polished and technically better, people would get bored of it fast. But it's a fear, not a judgement, I fear the game to turn it that way, not saying it is that way.

The quest based content points that way and but the ability to buy land and build your own house, or breed and raise chocobos can just be gimmicks, the same as Tera's combat.

We don't know yet how those ideas are implemented and how the new game version mechanics will work and what gameplay experience will deliver, maybe it's a game based on the same old mold but evolved enough to make it different, maybe it's a lot closer to 1.0 than what Square is showing, in fear for the bad press 1.0 received, or it may be just another mmo to get into the market and be forgotten in 6 months, with it's only achievement be that it failed twice. We still don't know and of course I will play ARR and then I will judge it, but until now I can only expect from the info Square has given me.

Edit: if I care so much it's because I don't want the game to disappoint me. It was bad enough with all the lacking content and broken game in general 1.0 delivered the first time. But I want XIV to remain different and good at that, not play the same "standard game" again.

[Ingolf]

Now we are talking. I'll admit that my use of the term "clones" is incorrect, but there is no way to deny that all these games were made based on the same concept, the one that Everquest presented and the one that WoW popularized. None of them tries to break the mold, that's why some people are calling "playing it safe" and "WoW clones", because the underlying gameplay is exactly the same, take or add a given gimmick. I had fun with some of those games, I didn't with others, but I know I enjoyed FFXI and WoW the most, and I'm sad to see how WoW after BC became well... a different game, still I enjoy it even know.

I'm not saying that using a concept that is proven is bad, or will result in bad games, and if you review my posts I've never judged 2.0 yet, I'm just saying I fear to find the same old stuff, even if it's good. What FFXIV in it's original conception attracted me was the new concepts, the new ideas trying to evolve the way mmorpgs are played and understood, insted now I'm getting the feeling that we are coming back to the Everquest formula with gimmicks, even if it's more polished and technically better, people would get bored of it fast. But it's a fear, not a judgement, I fear the game to turn it that way, not saying it is that way.

The quest based content points that way and but the ability to buy land and build your own house, or breed and raise chocobos can just be gimmicks, the same as Tera's combat.

We don't know yet how those ideas are implemented and how the new game version mechanics will work and what gameplay experience will deliver, maybe it's a game based on the same old mold but evolved enough to make it different, maybe it's a lot closer to 1.0 than what Square is showing, in fear for the bad press 1.0 received, or it may be just another mmo to get into the market and be forgotten in 6 months, with it's only achievement be that it failed twice. We still don't know and of course I will play ARR and then I will judge it, but until now I can only expect from the info Square has given me.

Edit: if I care so much it's because I don't want the game to disappoint me. It was bad enough with all the lacking content and broken game in general 1.0 delivered the first time. But I want XIV to remain different and good at that, not play the same "standard game" again.

Game should just be super serious all the time.

This gimmick has nothing to do with the gameplay as a whole, it's completely optional and doesn't impact the gameplay if you don't go into it. (Breeding chocobos will be great for solo play, but not necessary)

Your post reeks of:

[Dannythm]

Game should just be super serious all the time.

This gimmick has nothing to do with the gameplay as a whole, it's completely optional and doesn't impact the gameplay if you don't go into it. (Breeding chocobos will be great for solo play, but not necessary)

Your post reeks of:

Then you are not understanding me, or just stopped reading there. Pokemon as a game in itself is fun, adding battling pets in wow, through its fun, it's just a gimmick that adds nothing to the core of the game.

I'm the first to go out and try all the mini games and whatnot of a given game, hell, I spend a lot of hours in golden saucer in FFVII or just playing cards in FFVIII and IX, but that's just an extra, you don't go play those games to go tot he golden saucer or play cards, not the first time you play them through.

Gimmicks can add fun to a game, but they should not be a selling point, because that will indicate that the core mechanics of the game are bland and/or uninteresting, specially on a mmorpg.

Precisely what I want is a FF mmo that is FUN, with new mechanics and systems that are not the same that I'm used to play in other games, that's what I liked about Tanaka's concepts, and I damn every day the terrible execution they delivered of them.

[Arcell]

Then you are not understanding me, or just stopped reading there. Pokemon as a game in itself is fun, adding battling pets in wow, through its fun, it's just a gimmick that adds nothing to the core of the game.

I'm the first to go out and try all the mini games and whatnot of a given game, hell, I spend a lot of hours in golden saucer in FFVII or just playing cards in FFVIII and IX, but that's just an extra, you don't go play those games to go tot he golden saucer or play cards, not the first time you play them through.

Gimmicks can add fun to a game, but they should not be a selling point, because that will indicate that the core mechanics of the game are bland and/or uninteresting, specially on a mmorpg.

Precisely what I want is a FF mmo that is FUN, with new mechanics and systems that are not the same that I'm used to play in other games, that's what I liked about Tanaka's concepts, and I damn every day the terrible execution they delivered of them.

New mechanics and systems aren't necessarily better. There are standards in a genre because people like them, they tend to be "fun". They can use them as a starting point and build upon them, as they've already started to with things like the Limit Break system. That's directly a part of the gameplay, likely more so in large groups. It's also not something you see in every MMO. It's unique and not just for the sake of being unique. It adds to the depth of the gameplay.

Gimmicks, as you call them, do set the game apart from others. The more things the player can do the better and they can add variety to the game, breaking up the monotony of constant fighting.

Anything related to chocobos though ties more directly into the gameplay than most "gimmicks" you see out there. How you raise them affects their stats and the gambit-like system allows a greater degree of control in combat. It is an addition to the combat aspect of the game.

Also this really isn't about what YOU want. If you don't like what it is, don't play it. Don't whine about how it's not what YOU personally want. Let the game be what it is and if it's not something you like then find something you do like. Tanaka had his chance and the result was seen as one of the worst MMOs in history. It may not have been entirely his fault but it was his project and that was the result.

[Dannythm]

New mechanics and systems aren't necessarily better. There are standards in a genre because people like them, they tend to be "fun". They can use them as a starting point and build upon them, as they've already started to with things like the Limit Break system. That's directly a part of the gameplay, likely more so in large groups. It's also not something you see in every MMO. It's unique and not just for the sake of being unique. It adds to the depth of the gameplay.

Gimmicks, as you call them, do set the game apart from others. The more things the player can do the better and they can add variety to the game, breaking up the monotony of constant fighting.

Anything related to chocobos though ties more directly into the gameplay than most "gimmicks" you see out there. How you raise them affects their stats and the gambit-like system allows a greater degree of control in combat. It is an addition to the combat aspect of the game.

Also this really isn't about what YOU want. If you don't like what it is, don't play it. Don't whine about how it's not what YOU personally want. Let the game be what it is and if it's not something you like then find something you do like. Tanaka had his chance and the result was seen as one of the worst MMOs in history. It may not have been entirely his fault but it was his project and that was the result.

I'm not whining, I'm just expressing my fears that 2.0 is just a bland mmo with gimmicks with bland content and mechanics, not stating that it's the case. I'll repeat again, I'm not judging 2.0, I'm just expressing my desire for t to be the best game it can be.

I stated that I don't know how house building, limit breaks or chocobo breeding is tied to the mechanics of the game or how much of a minigames they all are, because I haven't played ARR yet, can be as you say and they are inherently tied and help make the game unique and more fun, or could be like I and others fear (keyword here), just gimmicks that add nothing to the core of the game.

And of course, if ARR is not what I expect and I don't find it fun and engaging, I won't play it and won't give square my money each month anymore, but meanwhile I'll express myself and try to give my fears and insights in the forums hoping that won't be the case.

[Davorok]

We don't know yet how those ideas are implemented and how the new game version mechanics will work and what gameplay experience will deliver...

Truest statement in this entire thread right there.

[Lirion]

Truest statement in this entire thread right there.

Yet it doesn't stop people from complaining their ass off and shouting WoW clone.

[Rokien]

Yet it doesn't stop people from complaining their ass off and shouting WoW clone.

Ya and when you are disappointed, you will wish you would have too.

[Starlord]

Ya and when you are disappointed, you will wish you would have too.

Okay Mr. Foreseer, So if we change the future.... XD

[Lirion]

Ya and when you are disappointed, you will wish you would have too.

I was going to type a lengthy reply but what's the point? You made up your mind. All I'm gonna say is that from what I have seen from ARR it looks nothing short of amazing and it takes a big pile of crap on 1.0 and that crap is like diamonds showering down over 1.0.