FFXIVARR Lower stats for token items

[AntonyB]

Not a big fan of the RNG this game has now because of the materia system =/ The whole needing RNG to have the best gear to cap stats is kinda meh. Like someone said, you can go 0/toomany and someone could just go 1/1. Would rather have to work for the gear rather than rely on RNG.

[Shougun]

Not a big fan of the RNG this game has now because of the materia system =/ The whole needing RNG to have the best gear to cap stats is kinda meh. Like someone said, you can go 0/toomany and someone could just go 1/1. Would rather have to work for the gear rather than rely on RNG.

Some people think the only way to make something hard is to make it random :/.

And yes the materia system is stupid as well but without changing the whole thing it is hard to change rng properties and not make the game too easy - which is why i went to create a thread with a suggested new system that would take its place.

We want rewarding - we just want equally rewarding. Right now I say Relic and some people lolz at their almost perfect ratio of no loss and others think epicly pain in the ass hard. Its not even maintaining the right image they want :/

[Elexia]

Look at what happened when seals were rained on you, everyone was running around in the higher end gear almost immediately. This is what will happen if anything else is easier to get and no one can deny that it will cheapen the value and accomplishment of having certain gear if everyone can get it just like that.

RNG has to exist but it also can be regulated in a way that it's still random but it doesn't have to be to the extreme 100% 1st meld > 10% 2nd meld > 1 % 3rd > Give me your first born 4th and 5th meld, it could easily drop in tier from 100 > 70 > 50 > 35 > 25%, or they could be smart and give you gear that increases your chances, or make your stats actually affect chances therefore it's regulated to certain level ranges and players who can properly meld, or they can simply make it like the evolith system (aka beta materia system) and let you slot anything and as much as you want just force the need of certain catalyst to come from different content.

[Maxthunder]

Some people think the only way to make something hard is to make it random :/.

And yes the materia system is stupid as well but without changing the whole thing it is hard to change rng properties and not make the game too easy - which is why i went to create a thread with a suggested new system that would take its place.

We want rewarding - we just want equally rewarding. Right now I say Relic and some people lolz at their almost perfect ratio of no loss and others think epicly pain in the ass hard. Its not even maintaining the right image they want :/

The sad thing is you need RNG otherwise players will have everything they want and refuse to do the content. It sounds like you want something thats 100% drop and that cant happen, because when it dose good luck getting anything done. Now some complain they have done 25, 50, 100 runs in av and cc or the primals that they havent gotten anything, but yes the drop rates could be increase a tad say about 5% but anything more would hurt everyone. Yoshi is giving you players what you want in the form of tokens, but now the same players who complain they have no darklight will complain thats not what they wanted, I say too bad deal with it or go play something thats more your speed. The fact is no matter what you do or what system they use someone will complain about something. You cant expect to get the best gear or weapons in the game and if you do there is something wrong. Final the tokens give the players complaining no progress something to work for with progress, and sorry to say if thats not enough thats no ones problem but your, there is no reason for players to demand that they get the best gear/weapons in the game. Now dont forget regardless of what you might think everything in a MMO will always have some kind of grind to it, so stop being cry babies and suck it up. Now regarding equal rewards please explain because in the current system and new system it is equal you have the same chance as the next player but again it sounds like you want a 100% guarenteed drop instead of putting in time and effort, if thats the case than you dont want whatever it is period!!! What needs to be done is players need to lose the entitlement mentality, because just because you do something dosent entitle you to anything!!!

[Shougun]

@Maxthunder
@Elexia (Pretty sure both of you assume tokens means easy which is incorrect "raining seals" kind of talk)

You dont need RNG specially in its basic form (what we have now). This is just some lie you have told yourself over and over.

No matter what we will need a grind - BUT no matter what we DONT need a basic unintelligent RNG design.

They can maintain elements of RNG while making it biased to work and skill. However you dont need to maintain these elements for the imaingary super feeling.

One piece of Darklight 1000 tokens or ~ 400 runs. Boom its rare and its a pain but its not random. (Having never done a Darklight run maybe the cost would be more or less)

Of course then you have people bitching that all you need is time, but that has always been the case for non casual directed MMO's - so nothing new. And they may claim no skill but completing a run takes skill - be rewarded for that run is your reward for your skill. May even earn more tokens for more feats like killing more bosses.

(If using a token system only you would need relief items for those who only want to run the dungeon a few times - but unlike what Yoshida has currently recommended you are not screwed into a rare but possible endless grind (as thats what "random" means - you have no idea what your work means until you "get lucky" which is unacceptable)).

Again you have burned into yourselves you need basic RNG - why I think is because you have no idea why you would suffer such systems before. You dont need it.


(I have crunched the numbers statistically - this is all mathematically sound)

[darkstarpoet1]

One piece of Darklight 1000 tokens or ~ 400 runs. Boom its rare and its a pain but its not random. (Having never done a Darklight run maybe the cost would be more or less)

now this part i do agree with. i've ran the content so i can say i think the 1000 tokens is way too much considering there's 15 total pieces of darklight. saying that'd be around 400 runs per piece you are looking at over 6000 runs to get the full set, but i do agree with you on the basic idea that i wouldn't have minded the low token downgraded version of the gear and a high token cost on the higher version of the gear.

i don't mind people knowing that if they ran the dungeon 200 times they could get the piece they want most or that they could run it 20 times and get the downgraded version. it would give each individual player a choice on whether they want to put the time into going after the upgrade or downgrade, but i feel the downgraded version should have 50% of all stats that the higher tier has.

the only other thing i've seen mentioned was drop rates on the gear as well. if they raised the drop rates to 5-10% tops i would support that change, but anything higher along with the token system is just crazy.

i just don't have the mentality that people should get gear easily, but i can see where someone that's willing to put in the effort and run it over and over shouldn't have to rely COMPLETELY on the rng. at least if tokens could purchase the high level gear they could see progress towards the one piece of gear they were after even if they see they need 200 runs to get it. they could at least say "well i know i will get this piece at least in another x number of runs"

[Maxthunder]

@Maxthunder
@Elexia (Pretty sure both of you assume tokens means easy which is incorrect "raining seals" kind of talk)

You dont need RNG specially in its basic form (what we have now). This is just some lie you have told yourself over and over.

No matter what we will need a grind - BUT no matter what we DONT need a basic unintelligent RNG design.

They can maintain elements of RNG while making it biased to work and skill. However you dont need to maintain these elements for the imaingary super feeling.

One piece of Darklight 1000 tokens or ~ 400 runs. Boom its rare and its a pain but its not random. (Having never done a Darklight run maybe the cost would be more or less)

Of course then you have people bitching that all you need is time, but that has always been the case for non casual directed MMO's - so nothing new. And they may claim no skill but completing a run takes skill - be rewarded for that run is your reward for your skill. May even earn more tokens for more feats like killing more bosses.

(If using a token system only you would need relief items for those who only want to run the dungeon a few times - but unlike what Yoshida has currently recommended you are not screwed into a rare but possible endless grind (as thats what "random" means - you have no idea what your work means until you "get lucky" which is unacceptable)).

Again you have burned into yourselves you need basic RNG - why I think is because you have no idea why you would suffer such systems before. You dont need it.


(I have crunched the numbers statistically - this is all mathematically sound)

The issue isnt skill or what not it is that some players probably 75% just want their reward w/o putting much effort into it. Now I stand by the statement: Regardless if you complete the content or not the dev's dont have to give you a bone aka reward, players are entitled to nothing for doing content. Now the Devs put gear or a weapon in content to be earned yet the same 75% think they are entitled to a drop for little to no effort, regardless of rng or what have you. I can support a drop increase of 5% possibly 10% but no more. I can not support 100% drop on the best gear in the game, I really cant support the token system unless, you can get darklight meaning for every 200 tokens you can get a non-body and for 400 tokens you can get a body. Now my suggestion provides what the players want and that is progress and it will also keep the players running said content. Now regarding the 3 loots per dungeon that needs to go as their wont be enough content to support such a lock out at the launch of 2.0 and yoshi has already in a way confirmed that.

[Shougun]

The issue isnt skill or what not it is that some players probably 75% just want their reward w/o putting much effort into it. Now I stand by the statement: Regardless if you complete the content or not the dev's dont have to give you a bone aka reward, players are entitled to nothing for doing content. Now the Devs put gear or a weapon in content to be earned yet the same 75% think they are entitled to a drop for little to no effort, regardless of rng or what have you. I can support a drop increase of 5% possibly 10% but no more. I can not support 100% drop on the best gear in the game, I really cant support the token system unless, you can get darklight meaning for every 200 tokens you can get a non-body and for 400 tokens you can get a body. Now my suggestion provides what the players want and that is progress and it will also keep the players running said content. Now regarding the 3 loots per dungeon that needs to go as their wont be enough content to support such a lock out at the launch of 2.0 and yoshi has already in a way confirmed that.

Confused how you can suggest a drop rate increase but not a token system that reaches all gear.

Basically you say you support easier randomness but not hard dedication and reliable means , I've never said anything about easy. Or perhaps you are misunderstanding how some other loot systems can work.

[Ferth]

There are good points on both sides of the argument, here. And really I'm not even sure where I stand. There are numerous things about 2.0 that when taken at face value make me wince a little inside, and really we would just have to wait and see what they have planned before we can decide how we feel about it.

My hope is that the gear purchased with tokens would be similar in utility but overall different from the rare dropped gear. So that one could feasibly fit either into their gear sets without having to compromise much. Whether that translates into the dropped gear being the current darklight sets with wider job utility per piece and the token gear perhaps being geared to one specific job and having just more sets... I dunno... I love to brainstorm about things like this...

Hopefully, though, they can find a way to integrate the tokens so they can be used for things beyond placeholder gear until you can get the rarer drops. Whether that is through desirable/useful consumables, or unique accessories, or even just novelty items. As long as they can create a need for the tokens it should keep things interesting.

[indira]

people are coming up with crazy numbers like 200 runs thats 90-100 hours of spamming unless the lock out is longer then thats gonna be thats much longer. you should be forced to get an items to even do the instance. that would kill spamming. and not easy a hell items like inferno taper, unmarked keystones & garuda items you need to start the fight.
EXAMPLE only:
ffxi you got beastmen seals to trade for orbs at different prices and each orb was a different level then you used that orb to start different instances in different areas, there there was kindred seal did the same purpose but had different fights and so on. that kinda system your not penalized or able to spam.

then you had bigger events that costed a hour galss item that lasted an hour & costed 1mill gil and you could make like copys of it to give to party members once you enter the instance your timer started after the tier ended you had a 3 day lock out.

the ARR dungeons need to be more then just a kill quest also, even wow had quest you can get inside a instance.