FFXIVARR Lower stats for token items

[Shougun]

@Maxthunder
@Elexia (Pretty sure both of you assume tokens means easy which is incorrect "raining seals" kind of talk)

You dont need RNG specially in its basic form (what we have now). This is just some lie you have told yourself over and over.

No matter what we will need a grind - BUT no matter what we DONT need a basic unintelligent RNG design.

They can maintain elements of RNG while making it biased to work and skill. However you dont need to maintain these elements for the imaingary super feeling.

One piece of Darklight 1000 tokens or ~ 400 runs. Boom its rare and its a pain but its not random. (Having never done a Darklight run maybe the cost would be more or less)

Of course then you have people bitching that all you need is time, but that has always been the case for non casual directed MMO's - so nothing new. And they may claim no skill but completing a run takes skill - be rewarded for that run is your reward for your skill. May even earn more tokens for more feats like killing more bosses.

(If using a token system only you would need relief items for those who only want to run the dungeon a few times - but unlike what Yoshida has currently recommended you are not screwed into a rare but possible endless grind (as thats what "random" means - you have no idea what your work means until you "get lucky" which is unacceptable)).

Again you have burned into yourselves you need basic RNG - why I think is because you have no idea why you would suffer such systems before. You dont need it.


(I have crunched the numbers statistically - this is all mathematically sound)

[darkstarpoet1]

One piece of Darklight 1000 tokens or ~ 400 runs. Boom its rare and its a pain but its not random. (Having never done a Darklight run maybe the cost would be more or less)

now this part i do agree with. i've ran the content so i can say i think the 1000 tokens is way too much considering there's 15 total pieces of darklight. saying that'd be around 400 runs per piece you are looking at over 6000 runs to get the full set, but i do agree with you on the basic idea that i wouldn't have minded the low token downgraded version of the gear and a high token cost on the higher version of the gear.

i don't mind people knowing that if they ran the dungeon 200 times they could get the piece they want most or that they could run it 20 times and get the downgraded version. it would give each individual player a choice on whether they want to put the time into going after the upgrade or downgrade, but i feel the downgraded version should have 50% of all stats that the higher tier has.

the only other thing i've seen mentioned was drop rates on the gear as well. if they raised the drop rates to 5-10% tops i would support that change, but anything higher along with the token system is just crazy.

i just don't have the mentality that people should get gear easily, but i can see where someone that's willing to put in the effort and run it over and over shouldn't have to rely COMPLETELY on the rng. at least if tokens could purchase the high level gear they could see progress towards the one piece of gear they were after even if they see they need 200 runs to get it. they could at least say "well i know i will get this piece at least in another x number of runs"

[Dzian]

i just don't have the mentality that people should get gear easily, but i can see where someone that's willing to put in the effort and run it over and over shouldn't have to rely COMPLETELY on the rng. at least if tokens could purchase the high level gear they could see progress towards the one piece of gear they were after even if they see they need 200 runs to get it. they could at least say "well i know i will get this piece at least in another x number of runs"

I think thats exacty what people want. myself included.

[Maxthunder]

@Maxthunder
@Elexia (Pretty sure both of you assume tokens means easy which is incorrect "raining seals" kind of talk)

You dont need RNG specially in its basic form (what we have now). This is just some lie you have told yourself over and over.

No matter what we will need a grind - BUT no matter what we DONT need a basic unintelligent RNG design.

They can maintain elements of RNG while making it biased to work and skill. However you dont need to maintain these elements for the imaingary super feeling.

One piece of Darklight 1000 tokens or ~ 400 runs. Boom its rare and its a pain but its not random. (Having never done a Darklight run maybe the cost would be more or less)

Of course then you have people bitching that all you need is time, but that has always been the case for non casual directed MMO's - so nothing new. And they may claim no skill but completing a run takes skill - be rewarded for that run is your reward for your skill. May even earn more tokens for more feats like killing more bosses.

(If using a token system only you would need relief items for those who only want to run the dungeon a few times - but unlike what Yoshida has currently recommended you are not screwed into a rare but possible endless grind (as thats what "random" means - you have no idea what your work means until you "get lucky" which is unacceptable)).

Again you have burned into yourselves you need basic RNG - why I think is because you have no idea why you would suffer such systems before. You dont need it.


(I have crunched the numbers statistically - this is all mathematically sound)

The issue isnt skill or what not it is that some players probably 75% just want their reward w/o putting much effort into it. Now I stand by the statement: Regardless if you complete the content or not the dev's dont have to give you a bone aka reward, players are entitled to nothing for doing content. Now the Devs put gear or a weapon in content to be earned yet the same 75% think they are entitled to a drop for little to no effort, regardless of rng or what have you. I can support a drop increase of 5% possibly 10% but no more. I can not support 100% drop on the best gear in the game, I really cant support the token system unless, you can get darklight meaning for every 200 tokens you can get a non-body and for 400 tokens you can get a body. Now my suggestion provides what the players want and that is progress and it will also keep the players running said content. Now regarding the 3 loots per dungeon that needs to go as their wont be enough content to support such a lock out at the launch of 2.0 and yoshi has already in a way confirmed that.

[Shougun]

The issue isnt skill or what not it is that some players probably 75% just want their reward w/o putting much effort into it. Now I stand by the statement: Regardless if you complete the content or not the dev's dont have to give you a bone aka reward, players are entitled to nothing for doing content. Now the Devs put gear or a weapon in content to be earned yet the same 75% think they are entitled to a drop for little to no effort, regardless of rng or what have you. I can support a drop increase of 5% possibly 10% but no more. I can not support 100% drop on the best gear in the game, I really cant support the token system unless, you can get darklight meaning for every 200 tokens you can get a non-body and for 400 tokens you can get a body. Now my suggestion provides what the players want and that is progress and it will also keep the players running said content. Now regarding the 3 loots per dungeon that needs to go as their wont be enough content to support such a lock out at the launch of 2.0 and yoshi has already in a way confirmed that.

Confused how you can suggest a drop rate increase but not a token system that reaches all gear.

Basically you say you support easier randomness but not hard dedication and reliable means , I've never said anything about easy. Or perhaps you are misunderstanding how some other loot systems can work.

[indira]

people are coming up with crazy numbers like 200 runs thats 90-100 hours of spamming unless the lock out is longer then thats gonna be thats much longer. you should be forced to get an items to even do the instance. that would kill spamming. and not easy a hell items like inferno taper, unmarked keystones & garuda items you need to start the fight.
EXAMPLE only:
ffxi you got beastmen seals to trade for orbs at different prices and each orb was a different level then you used that orb to start different instances in different areas, there there was kindred seal did the same purpose but had different fights and so on. that kinda system your not penalized or able to spam.

then you had bigger events that costed a hour galss item that lasted an hour & costed 1mill gil and you could make like copys of it to give to party members once you enter the instance your timer started after the tier ended you had a 3 day lock out.

the ARR dungeons need to be more then just a kill quest also, even wow had quest you can get inside a instance.

[Maxthunder]

Confused how you can suggest a drop rate increase but not a token system that reaches all gear.

Basically you say you support easier randomness but not hard dedication and reliable means , I've never said anything about easy. Or perhaps you are misunderstanding how some other loot systems can work.

Please read again I suggested both a small increase in drop rate as well as the tokens say 200 for non-bodies and 400 tokens for bodies. We already know that crystal towers may or may not be ready at launch and Im betting it wont be ready at launch.

[Orophin]

Hopefully, though, they can find a way to integrate the tokens so they can be used for things beyond placeholder gear until you can get the rarer drops. Whether that is through desirable/useful consumables, or unique accessories, or even just novelty items. As long as they can create a need for the tokens it should keep things interesting.

My proposition was to handle it like WoW, back when I played it anyway. The only thing you could buy that was shared between relevant content at the time were items used to trade for tier gear. Everything else you buy with tokens were unique items, usually in slots where between two dungeons that were relevant to a content patch, there would be one drop for that slot. (wands, librams, etc.) Later on they started adding boots and gauntlets and stuff.

Anyway, if people are dead set against using tokens for main slot armor pieces (head, body, hands, feet, legs) then at least let us use tokens for equipment for all the other different item slots, but are the same item level as drops from the other dungeons.

[Shougun]

Please read again I suggested both a small increase in drop rate as well as the tokens say 200 for non-bodies and 400 tokens for bodies. We already know that crystal towers may or may not be ready at launch and Im betting it wont be ready at launch.

I just must be reading it wrong then because I get something else out of it lol

And system like what you said will work I think, only a few pages in I said something very similar.

Just RNG however cannot be the only avenue.

[darkstarpoet1]

I just must be reading it wrong then because I get something else out of it lol

And system like what you said will work I think, only a few pages in I said something very similar.

Just RNG however cannot be the only avenue.

yeah, war just thinks since the bodies are the most difficult to get in a set it should have the highest cost if allowed to be obtained via tokens. it was a more along the lines he doesn't support getting the best gear via tokens without having them require alot of effort to get them.

he's like i mentioned earlier.
20 tokens gets the lower tier gear with 50% of the stats
200 tokens gets the higher tier gear.

his only difference is he wants to have the body cost more than the rest because it's the hardest to get now. it'd be like 10 tokens for ifrit's weapons and 20 for garuda's except it'd be on bodies and everything else.