Lets Talk - Red Mage

[KoujiGeki]

One of the Jobs of Old. The Job that has been in FF since the beginning. This is a discussion that be and a Ls mate had. I would like to talk to the forums and have your thoughts on it.

The main description of Red Mage is jack of all Trades, Master at nothing. I've seen some threads talk about how Hybrid classes/job wouldn't really work in this game. And with how most people i seen handle things i could agree to that though i hate to do so. I do love Red Mage.

As of 2.0 will arrive Arcanist/Summoner which we have been told will be the Enfeeble DoT job. I was ok with this till i thought about it. What about Red Mage? I know by using Red Mage from 11 is gonna anger some people, but It was the Enfeeble king. Which i can foresee if it isn't will anger a lot of 11 people who give 2.0 and chance again who mainly played Rdm.

It other magic is based of of Blm and Whm but not the strongest version. And the way the gear system works doesn't allow gear swapping so you couldn't focus on one side more than another as easily as you could in 11. but besides Magic what drew most people to Rdm was it could use a little bit of heavy armor and a sword. But same problem Its sword damage wouldn't even come close to what a DD would hit for. Maybe more than a Pld or Gla, but who knows i've seen pld and Gla do some impressive DDing on Single/boss mobs.

I have no clue if they will continue to have their En spells, which seems redundant cause Mnks technically already has them. I heard that Mnk is getting the heaviest revamp in 2.0 possible one of the things they MIGHT take away to give it back to Red Mage. But i would see rage from the games current Monks unless they substitute something else.

What do you guys think how Red Mage would fit in FFXIV? What feature do you think it might have to make a viable pick. Cause honestly i can't see picks a all rounded mediocre at best job vs a specialized job. Imagining it a Fencer that it is sure its gonna hit faster than Pld/Gla but not as fast a Mnk. Certainly not gonna out DD a Drg. And Satan will crawl back to go telling him he is sorry before Rdm would ever touch Blm damage. I don't even want to compare Rdm to Whm. Whm wins pure and simple.

All i know is that when SE finally adds Rdm, which god knows when since it got the 2nd lowest vote. It better god damn have refresgGA and hastGA god help SE is i have to cycle ever again.

[strallaalaa]

i loved my rdm, was my first class i leveled, took the longest to hit max and was also the class i always ran around in solo. even if i did events eventually with mostly blm and brd i always rocked out my rdm all day too. i hope it does make a come back, only thing i don't agree with is the refreshGa and hastGa, i don't mind that it will be party aoe, and it probably will, but for ffxi i thought it was great. it made the class always busy. you didn't really have a break at all in parties. you were always casting stuff while say a war could almost afk and do his job in merit grinds. but for sure this game won't make us spam the same 2 moves over and over, i think too many complaints will happen. and this game has other things to keep use busy. at the moment i think whm has it way too easy in dungeons and burning circles. it still my fav class but its mostly the easiest class to do. or i'm just that good lol. but can't wait to see how they work in new jobs and classes in the future.

[Ikkenoe]

oh, this thread again

[SwordCoheir]

Myself and a few people have made some threads on RDM (I actually have the link to mine in my sig), basically most have summed up thoughts that the current and future FFXIV system will make it impossible for RDM to be a carbon copy of FFXI's RDM.

The spell/job ability limitations are so restrictive they would have too combine the aspects in order for RDM to even be the least bit viable at anything and maintain the basic status quo of melee and white/black magic user. So in hindsight if RDM were to come out it would probably be built like this.

1-2 Heal spells
3-5 Buff/Job abilities
3-4 T3 Magic Sword Combos (Example: Burning Blade > Red Lotus Blade > Flare Blade)

-or-

1-2 Heal Spells
3-4 Buff Spells
1-2 Job abilities
1 T2 Sword/Magic Sword Combo
2 T3 Sword/Magic Sword Combo

Proving they don't do away with combos all together, I imagine they would be set up somewhat similar. In any case they would have to try really hard to mess RDM up in the same manner they did FFXI's RDM, and that's because they don't have all the freedom and guesswork that they had to deal with in FFXI like skills levels, EX weaponskills, mostly unlimited magic pools, retarded boundaries of skills etc.

[strallaalaa]

can have the nukes as well no? if they set it up like whm nukes, they have the aoe nuke that only is aoe if you do it first and not in a combo or it will become stronger but none aoe. can chose between range (nukes) or mele moves. both triggering a cooldown or something of the sort. i see lot of possibilities who knows really what they go with but i can still see a very rdm'ish style working fine.

[Ikkenoe]

they would have to try really hard to mess RDM up in the same manner they did FFXI's

strange how they could "mess up" a job that ended up being deeper than pretty much anything else in that game, and certainly much deeper than anything in this game comparatively

healing?
debuffing?
chainspell nuking?
tanking?

you got it!

but everyone's butts are still hurting because they don't care about how effectively overpowered it was. they just wanna wear frumpy mage-slash-swashbuckler gear and swing around a flamey sword yayyyy

[Ingolf]

RDM's were great soloers, stunners, tanks, debuffers and healers.

They only found their way into obscurity after SE killed RDM/NIN tanking and debuffs became less necessary with Abyssea and VW.

Upping the level cap made convert one less ability that RDM's had under their belt too. A lot of RDM's problems now-a-days is that pretty much everything they can do, other jobs can do better.

I don't know why everyone assumes they were always under-powered, they were one of the most necessary jobs for a long time.

[Duelle]

The main description of Red Mage is jack of all Trades, Master at nothing.

Doesn't work in an MMORPG. Proven through and through, and XI's RDM being the posterboy of that problem.

I was ok with this till i thought about it. What about Red Mage? I know by using Red Mage from 11 is gonna anger some people, but It was the Enfeeble king. Which i can foresee if it isn't will anger a lot of 11 people who give 2.0 and chance again who mainly played Rdm.

You're missing something here. First, enfeebling in terms of design is a tertiary class aspect. Building a job around it is shallow, and Yoshida realizes this. Hence why it is blended into the pet job aspects of SMN and Arcanist. It's not a bad thing in the long run.

Second, RDM was shoehorned into enfeebling because the devs didn't know what to do with the job.

I have no clue if they will continue to have their En spells, which seems redundant cause Mnks technically already has them. I heard that Mnk is getting the heaviest revamp in 2.0 possible one of the things they MIGHT take away to give it back to Red Mage. But i would see rage from the games current Monks unless they substitute something else.

In the letter from the producer where Wada made a cameo, Yoshida's words on MNK were along the lines that it currently played like a mahou kenshi (魔法剣士, AKA a magic fencer/swordsman), which is why that job is getting the heaviest revamp.

What do you guys think how Red Mage would fit in FFXIV?

Front line combatant. Procs that allow spells to be insta-cast. Offensive spells require melee range. Support-type spells having slightly longer casting range but significantly weaker than what a dedicated healer can do. Debuffs built into weapon abilities, some which hinder the mob and some which act as damage multipliers for the RDM's physical and magic attacks. Enspells to further show the job is built on the marriage of melee combat and magic. Or go with the link in my signature.

All i know is that when SE finally adds Rdm, which god knows when since it got the 2nd lowest vote. It better god damn have refresgGA and hastGA god help SE is i have to cycle ever again.

I'd rather leave that sort of thing to the bards and the white mages. Red Mage does not and should never be given that accursed crutch to get party invites. If it's a proc from a weapon skill or specific attack spell, I may allow it. Provided it is short duration to be more of a benefit of having the Red Mage attacking things.

PS: Red Mage is not a back line class

[yukikaze_yanagi]

i don't like the idea of red mage being a carbon copy of ffxi.
red mage always been a jack of all trades, curing and nuking at same times, but not forget it's also more melee oriented , equipping heavier armors an swords. Since we're getting jobs more in old ff fashion (blm and whm have a nuke distribution very similar to ffI) you should ask to yourseves if you wold like a melee mage instead asking ffxi's red mage

[Yellow]

The job should do what it was designed to do in Final Fantasy.

To do a significant amount of damage, while being able to heal the rest of the party, however not as much damage as a BLM would do, and the heals wouldn't be as strong as a WHM's heals.

Could be a class that focuses on auto-attacking (somehow making your auto-attacks allow you to cast spells -> Meaning you had to decide whether the heals or extra damage is more needed at the time).

Idk just an idea.

(The FFXI Red Mage seems more like a Time Mage -- Buffing/Debuffing, casting Refresh..)