Small Rant on Seal Rolls in Hamlet parties

[Raikki]

How can you say this and practically in the same breath tell me it was fair for someone to roll at 1/2 in my party while the other two roll at 1/4 for the same item?

He didn't roll at 1/2. Four people each rolled at 1/4 and the winner donated it to one of the others. You continue to ignore the fact that the winner contributed to the hamlet just as much and is just as entitled to his reward of choice as anyone else in the party.

[Wynn]

He didn't roll at 1/2. Four people each rolled at 1/4 and the winner donated it to one of the others. You continue to ignore the fact that the winner contributed to the hamlet just as much and is just as entitled to his reward of choice as anyone else in the party.

2/4 is the same as 1/2. You are arguing semantics. The bottom line is a person who didn't need, and could not use even if he wanted to, rolled on an item with the sole intention of giving it to a person who was already rolling on it. It is the same as letting one person roll twice.

[Chinook]

I'm a bit surprised that no one pointed out that in the OP's situation that whatever the others decide to do with their seals it has absolutely no effect on the chance of him getting his seal. If he was in a group where everyone was keeping their seal drops he'd have 1/8 a chance to get a seal. If he was in a group where 7 of the members were all passing their seals to one person, he'd still have 1/8 a chance to get a seal. The situation does not effect HIS chances of getting a seal at all, which sadly means this whole rant is simply bitterness that someone else has a friend trying to help them. =/

Quoted for truth.

[Shougun]

I think what happened was stupid with the information I have seen so far lol. That the winning player should have shared - but that's more on personal morals and etiquette then what the person who traded did. **

Moving onto the other part in my mind is that in the beginning people are asked if they need seals. If your interpretation of that is personally need seals then what he did was wrong. If it was just "I want seals, because" then.. even if he dropped it on the ground it was still his seal.

I would have dropped kicked someone as party leader - IF i had set up a system to prevent seal rigging and bidding before hand.

If no system was set up previously then for pick up groups I usually go by what drops to you is yours ( to be biased with, drop, or start a bidding game ).


Summarize, it seems like they were being unfair - as a system was put in place to ensure fair seal dispersed. Perhaps the system should have been better discussed. But also if everyone is going for seals it is in general expected that if you got one item already you pass it to those who haven't - so everyone's experience didn't feel wasted by RNG (I have passed a seal before because I already got one, to someone who wasn't my friend or LS even though my friend in LS wanted one (but already got one)).

**Then again if the person coming said "I'm coming to help Joe get seals" then his acceptance to group was already tensed with the idea that he would be taking and passing seals to his friend.

[Estellios]

If I join a hamlet party to get someone seals, if I am not taking any other items you will bet your ass that I will be lotting and passing to my friend. It's not a question of who deserves it or not, I'm putting in my own time and effort without any sort of reward save for getting my friend their seals. You can't even run hamlets without a full group in the first place so having any sort of chance at a seal at all helps you out too.

In a mostly-LS party though, I end up avoiding this altogether by just shouting for people that want gear only and forfeiting all gear claims to whoever joins.

[Haibel]

Wynn,

I read all this when you were talking about it in the LS last night. You seem a bit more bitter
about this today, compared to last night. I also can understand getting more annoyed over the
day defending your own position on the matter here on the lodestone. You should have just
kept it in the shell, even though you didn't do this run with the shell. At least you have a far lower
change of getting flamed in the shell. Even with the best intentions most topics turn to crap here
on the stone.

I wish I could have some input on the matter, but I simply don't. I have never done nor plan to do
Hamlet defense. I wrote that off by the way it was implemented. I was hoping for something closure
to Campaign from XI.

[Wynn]

Quoted for truth.

Except it's not true. Three people were rolling on seals. Three people that still needed them. A fourth in the group changed their roll only to fluff one of the three's rolls.

So in actuality, three people have 1 out of 3 chance. When a fourth is added it reduces to 1 out of 4. When that person decides to roll on an item only to give it to one of the other rollers it boosts that roller to 2 out of 4, or 1/2, while at the same time lowering the chances of others from 1/3 to 1/4. It was nothing more than an arbitrary shift of odds in one person's favor.

The only reason this person did this was to increase their friend's chance at winning a seal over the other lotters. They certainly didn't do it just for the lulz. There is no other reason than that.

But I guess that is what passes for fairness in the XIV community.

This is basic math guys. It's not that hard.

[Chinook]

This not basic math, this is emotion.

That would be another story if that guy had changed his mind when the seal dropped at the end, but he did it before.

[Wynn]

Wynn,

I read all this when you were talking about it in the LS last night. You seem a bit more bitter
about this today, compared to last night. I also can understand getting more annoyed over the
day defending your own position on the matter here on the lodestone. You should have just
kept it in the shell, even though you didn't do this run with the shell. At least you have a far lower
change of getting flamed in the shell. Even with the best intentions most topics turn to crap here
on the stone.

I wish I could have some input on the matter, but I simply don't. I have never done nor plan to do
Hamlet defense. I wrote that off by the way it was implemented. I was hoping for something closure
to Campaign from XI.

Hi Haibel

I'm really not bitter over it. I'm not upset at all. But I do assert that this is not cool behavior and it shouldn't be something that people think is ok to do. Cause it's not.

For example, you are in my shell. And if we were running hamlets together, and I had all my seals, I would not /random on the seal just to give you a better chance at that item. It simply wouldn't be fair to the other people rolling against you. No matter how much I like linkshell mates, I feel it would be wrong.

Mostly I'm just trying to understand why the people that feel this is not wrong feel that way.

But so far, all I've gotten is the Cartman response.



It's kinda disappointing.

[Gentaro]

This is basic math guys. It's not that hard.

Basic math for you:

Person A contributed 12,5% of effort to the party -> gets 12,5% chance on seal in return (or drops that for another item, tho the dropchance is lower)
Wynn contributed 12,5% as well

Person B was asked to join this group by person A. Person B already has all his seals and contributes 12,5% just as the rest - why would he not gain an as high chance on loot as the rest did?
You could say 25% of the effort were contributed to this team by Player A, after all he made Person B join the party?
How about you get some of your friends to sacrifice their time for you to help you in Hamlet? Without gaining anything from that? I'm sure you wouldn't like that idea.


I could understand your point if someone rolls on a seal just to sell it afterwards, but what happened to you is everything but unfair. Get over it, get friends to help you.