If SE is taking away my hard work...

[Deatheye]

Nore what operations they plan to do to deal with gold sellers, in XIV it was never much of an issue, we seem to think people do not buy, however in XI this was not the case, plenty bought and it was a serious problem.

Someone in this thread wrote something about SE going to make it harder to acquire gil. I'm sure people allready buy gil, there would be no reason for gil farmers to exist without buyers. If they really do make it harder to acquire or implement more sink I wonder if they going to do anything more against the seller, cause in both cases the interest on the buyer side will rise.
Less then 8 USD for a milion is terrible cheap.

[darkstarpoet1]

Someone in this thread wrote something about SE going to make it harder to acquire gil. I'm sure people allready buy gil, there would be no reason for gil farmers to exist without buyers. If they really do make it harder to acquire or implement more sink I wonder if they going to do anything more against the seller, cause in both cases the interest on the buyer side will rise.
Less then 8 USD for a milion is terrible cheap.

it may be harder, but the gil sellers are still going to be making the same profits. right now whatever they sell it for will just be dropped to the same percentage we just dropped. it took nothing from the gil sellers. idk what they sell for, but i'll use your example. if they sell 8usd for 1mil now it'll just become 8usd for 100k. they will still have the exact same value because they dropped the exact same percentage as everyone else.

[KiriA500]

There is lack of information on:
- how you earn Gil.
- how you loose Gil (through Sinks).
- how the AH/TP will work.

Earning and losing gil by gil sink should remain the same as their are now.

If a current guildleve gives 10,000 gil as a reward, it'll give 1,000 gil as a reward in A Realm Reborn. If an item is bought from an NPC vendor for 10,000 gil, it'll be bought for 1,000 gil in A Realm Reborn.

As for gil sinks, we currently have 5,000 gil airship rides for a level 50 player, which will drop to 500 gil in A Realm Reborn. Just like NPC vendor items, such as a 15,000 gil weapon being sold for 1,500 gil. The 1/10 ratio applied to all this stuff means we aren't losing any gil.

The AH/TP thing is still player driven, so that's not a Square-Enix problem. We currently have a tax on the Market Wards items, which is a huge sink, but that's just a % of the sold item. If we get an Auction House similar to Final Fantasy XI, all it does is remove the tax when you place the item up for sale instead of taking it out of the amount you sold it for. It's the same.

As for the Atamos exploit, the only reason that was such a problem was because it was from an event where you got the items for spamming the same mob as everybody else, therefore you could do nothing and still be rewarded. The items you bought with the company seals had a high value to an NPC, so everyone spammed it. People did the same thing in Final Fantasy XI with Remedies for a while, but it was only profitable if you were the alchemist making the items that you farmed yourself. The price of those was altered because a fight came along that handed those out as a reward. Square-Enix just needs to realize that if you hand out stuff for free, people are going to exploit it if it's profitable to them.

[viion]

it may be harder, but the gil sellers are still going to be making the same profits. right now whatever they sell it for will just be dropped to the same percentage we just dropped. it took nothing from the gil sellers. idk what they sell for, but i'll use your example. if they sell 8usd for 1mil now it'll just become 8usd for 100k. they will still have the exact same value because they dropped the exact same percentage as everyone else.

That will be interesting to find out, I personally dont think they will sell 100k for 8USD, I just dont have faith RMT will be "fair" like that. Especially if new players and this whole situation causes more demand from buyers.

Earning and losing gil by gil sink should remain the same as their are now.

If a current guildleve gives 10,000 gil as a reward, it'll give 1,000 gil as a reward in A Realm Reborn. If an item is bought from an NPC vendor for 10,000 gil, it'll be bought for 1,000 gil in A Realm Reborn.

As for gil sinks, we currently have 5,000 gil airship rides for a level 50 player, which will drop to 500 gil in A Realm Reborn. Just like NPC vendor items, such as a 15,000 gil weapon being sold for 1,500 gil. The 1/10 ratio applied to all this stuff means we aren't losing any gil.

The AH/TP thing is still player driven, so that's not a Square-Enix problem. We currently have a tax on the Market Wards items, which is a huge sink, but that's just a % of the sold item. If we get an Auction House similar to Final Fantasy XI, all it does is remove the tax when you place the item up for sale instead of taking it out of the amount you sold it for. It's the same.

As for the Atamos exploit, the only reason that was such a problem was because it was from an event where you got the items for spamming the same mob as everybody else, therefore you could do nothing and still be rewarded. The items you bought with the company seals had a high value to an NPC, so everyone spammed it. People did the same thing in Final Fantasy XI with Remedies for a while, but it was only profitable if you were the alchemist making the items that you farmed yourself. The price of those was altered because a fight came along that handed those out as a reward. Square-Enix just needs to realize that if you hand out stuff for free, people are going to exploit it if it's profitable to them.

Very true that people do exploit these advantages, and they drive up the economy big, those who did not exploit are being affected by it, its not nice really but thats tough to deal with.

Also, Atamos had nothing to do with guildeves or quests, it was vendor prices, and look how tiny the price was and how it made people have multi-millions in such a short period of time. You could see an item at 1k now and in ARR be vendored for 100g, what happens when an exploit or a "unforeseen" situation occurs in that people are able to make millions upon millions from that 100g item. Its something they need really try avoid. (This happened massively at GW2 launch with Karma and caused suspension!).

The gil sinks you mentioned do not effected me, only the AH one, which is very little to the amount I earn, because i "recuperate" it immediately, where as airship, or choco or repair i'd loose it with no return immediately. Those 3 things are irrelevant sinks to me and I imagine many many others as they do not use those services.

[darkstarpoet1]

That will be interesting to find out, I personally dont think they will sell 100k for 8USD, I just dont have faith RMT will be "fair" like that. Especially if new players and this whole situation causes more demand from buyers.

oh i'm not giving a real usd amount because i have no clue of what they are selling for now. what i am saying is that people keep saying the rmt lost a ton of gil. that's just not the case because they will either increase their selling price by 10 for the same amount as previous or give you 1/10th of the previous amount for the same value. he stated an amount of 8-per-mil now is why i used the 8-per-hundredk, but could be just as easily 80-per-mil.

edit: now on the demand changing you could be correct there. if the demand for their "services" are increased the value to them will increase.

[hua]

Just pretend the government decides to take away all your dimes and replace it with a silver dollar for every ten dimes. Now all you have is one coin rather than ten. Would you rather have your ten dimes back or better yet, a hundred pennies for quantity sake even though its purchasing power is the same?

Are you willing to pay the price knowing that the items are ridiculously overpriced? Not everyone has max gil and people who couldn't afford certain items in 1.0 for sure won't be able to afford it in 2.0. Factor in new comers that sure as hell won't be able to afford items even if it's sold at half 1.0's price.

[viion]

Just pretend the government decides to take away all your dimes and replace it with a silver dollar for every ten dimes. Now all you have is one coin rather than ten. Would you rather have your ten dimes back or better yet, a hundred pennies for quantity sake even though its purchasing power is the same? Are you willing to pay the price knowing that the items are ridiculously overpriced? Not everyone has max gil and people who couldn't afford certain items in 1.0 for sure won't be able to afford it in 2.0. Factor in new comers that sure as hell won't be able to afford items even if it's sold at half 1.0's price.

Inflation has proved people will pay extreme prices, even when not in major demand. I have successfully raised the price of many materials and shards to well over 3-4 times their value and people are happy to pay this.

You can't count on the fact that people will not buy products are steep prices. @darkstarpoet1 has pointed out some very good reasons as to why items will lower and lower, but like he said its not based soley on people refusing to purchase expensive prices (Which I believe is not a valid reason because people already pay hyper inflated expensive prices now).

You can see it in the real world. An IPad will come out and be $600, but they all sell and end up at $1500 on ebay, and they DO sell. People sell GoogleIO tickets for $2000, this is almost 4 times as much as its original value but that didn't stop people, to them its a reasonable price, they are happy to pay the insanely high price. (That argument, is solely to prove that people do infact pay much higher prices).

[Chinook]

I would pay 30m. I have 30m.
In 2.0 if the price goes to 10m. I will have 3m.
I wont be able to buy it anymore.

In 2.0 if the prices goes to 3.1m. I will have 3m.
I wont be able to buy it anymore.

However.

I would be willing to pay 45m (50% more)
Thus it could go to 4.5m and I be happy to go buy it if I have enough.
It could of been 30m and go to 4.5m and I be happy to pay it.
Those who could buy it before, now cant because I and others balanced it out at 4.5m
Which is 50% more.

So what I am saying is, Due to ARR, the price of an item increased 50% more
where it would have not in the current economy as its not increasing in value now.

I cant get it more simpler than this, this is the exact reason, why > I < believe I am losing Gil, because the reduction of the item did not go to 1/10th and I have to pay more than what I had to originally.

You may not find this as losing gil, you may call it anything you want, describe it in anyway you want and try tell me I am wrong, but you won't succeed, because to me, this is the reason why I think myself, and other people, are losing Gil.

I do not buy from NPC's.
I do not Rent Chocobos.
I do not use the repair person.
I do not use the airship.
I do not purchase from Qiqirn Market.

All those gil sinks are irrelevant to me, and I bet a lot of others. Their costs could be x400 or 1/1000th it would have zero effect to me.

You forgot 50% of the equation, your income ...

Let's say the double-melded class weapon you're looking for went from 30m in 1.0 to 10m in ARR (33% of current value and not 10%, giving you the feeling to be ripped off).

The mats and materias to make that double-melded class weapon will also be worth roughly 33% of their current values. Guess who sell mats and materias ? Me and you. So your income will fluctuate at the same rate as the market, your buying power will be pretty much the same as of now.

[KiriA500]

You can see it in the real world. An IPad will come out and be $600, but they all sell and end up at $1500 on ebay, and they DO sell. People sell GoogleIO tickets for $2000, this is almost 4 times as much as its original value but that didn't stop people, to them its a reasonable price, they are happy to pay the insanely high price. (That argument, is solely to prove that people do infact pay much higher prices).

Yes, but those things already have a set price. People just exploit others for the sake of profit. An iPad is not worth $1500 ever, but some stupid Mac lover will pay that price because they GOTTA HAVE IT, when they could just wait 2 months and find them everywhere. Nobody is happy to pay more than twice what an item is worth...they just do it because they're stupid and want it sooner than later.

[viion]

Yes, but those things already have a set price. People just exploit others for the sake of profit. An iPad is not worth $1500 ever, but some stupid Mac lover will pay that price because they GOTTA HAVE IT, when they could just wait 2 months and find them everywhere. Nobody is happy to pay more than twice what an item is worth...they just do it because they're stupid and want it sooner than later.

Right.... That is exactly my point...