The ARR website update that was supposed to come this week

[Soukyuu]

Drought? funny since this "drought" lasted exactly two day by now.

Which 2 days? Since the release of the translation (= info we got 2 weeks ago in Japanese)?

Then maybe you need to refresh your English. Lemme help. "Constant" doesn't specify a strict frequency. A piece of information a month can be defined "constant" as much as a piece of information a day, depending on circumstances, field of application and a lot of other factors.

Exactly. The thing you are not mentioning is, like the word "constant" implies, once the constant is set, it stays constant. Following me so far? A period of a month followed by a day, followed by a few weeks is not constant, but a variable. Splitting hairs? You started it.

If you think translating and subtitling 90 minutes of video that features continuous talk with any degree of quality is easy or fast, you're delusional. The little difference is that the "fan translation" doesn't have any quality requirement. If the translator screws up, it's his problem alone.

Have you ever translated an episode of a series? Including editing the translation and typesetting the subs so that not only what is spoken, but also what is shown on the screen is translated? All in one video? Followed by encoding said episode? All in half a day? I don't think so.

Fan translations not having a requirement of quality? That's BS. Yes, they won't get fired if they mess up, but that doesn't mean the translator will get sloppy, simply because they're doing it out of passion, which is a better motivator than money. Also, good translators usually take pride in their work, so whether they get paid or are just fans doing it for free, the quality will be the same.

On top of it the "fan translation" doesn't need to be proofread and even more so, doesn't need to be greenlighted for release by the marketing team.

Yes it does. It's called QC. If the translator and the editor are good, then QC is as fast as watching said 90 minute video once. So compared to a 25min episode, the amount of work would be about 4 days. But certainly not two weeks.

What you are saying is that green-lighting by the marketing team takes one and a half weeks. I don't see why the marketing team has to do anything with this, since what was being translated is a live letter that any Japanese speaking person has seen and got the info. The content of that live letter was already approved by the marketing team. If the translation is correct (checking which doesn't involve the marketing team), then we will be getting exactly the same info the others did.

The only explanation why the translation took so long is the translators being busy translating material for ARR. How much is going on behind the scenes is hidden from us, so something like "guys, the translation is going to be late, we're busy with other things" would be nice.

The whole issue and the original topic of the thread is not "we're not getting info" but "info was promised at day x, no information on why it was delayed." And that's a world of difference

May want not to talk about things you don't know. Oh, wait, you have been for the whole thread.

Rrrrright... I'm expecting a decent tone in your next reply, otherwise, don't expect a reply from me.

[Abriael]

Which 2 days? Since the release of the translation (= info we got 2 weeks ago in Japanese)?

And? Not everyone knows Japanese you know? It doesn't make it less relevant information.

Exactly. The thing you are not mentioning is, like the word "constant" implies, once the constant is set, it stays constant. Following me so far? A period of a month followed by a day, followed by a few weeks is not constant, but a variable. Splitting hairs? You started it.

Yes, you're splitting hairs, and you've started it even before I joined this trainwreck of a thread. As long as the period is roughly similar (and if you take a month in consideration as a framework it is), it can easily be defined constant.

Have you ever translated an episode of a series? Including editing the translation and typesetting the subs so that not only what is spoken, but also what is shown on the screen is translated? All in one video? Followed by encoding said episode? All in half a day? I don't think so.

As a matter of fact, I did. The difference is that I did it professionally, as I worked for an anime localization company for six years. Mind you, I took up the episode after the translation, from adaptation to subtitling and voice acting supervision, so the process had already been going for a while before it got to me.

So yeah, I know quite well the difference between fan translation and subtitling and the professional equivalent. They're nothing alike, and the fact that you compare them is honestly a tad ridiculous.

I have all the respect of the world for fansubbers and the effort they put in for free, but comparing their work to the procedures necessary for a professional translation is honestly out of the world.

What you are saying is that green-lighting by the marketing team takes one and a half weeks. I don't see why the marketing team has to do anything with this, since what was being translated is a live letter that any Japanese speaking person has seen and got the info. The content of that live letter was already approved by the marketing team. If the translation is correct (checking which doesn't involve the marketing team), then we will be getting exactly the same info the others did.

When you translate any marketing-related material to a different language (or three), it needs to be greenlighted again from scratch, because even a good translator can easily change the wording of a concept that, especially when talking about unreleased game mechanics, can make a whole lot of difference. Which means that it has to be double-checked by someone involved in development and then by marketing.

*Every* piece of promotional material released by a company will have to be greenlighted by marketing. No company with any bit of sanity would skip that passage. That's what marketing is for.

When you submit finished promotional material to marketing, they won't suddenly drop whatever they're doing and get to your stuff. It'll be put in queue and addressed as soon as possible. And then if something doesn't add up, marketing doesn't simply correct it and then greenlights it. It has to go back to the translator and then be greenlighted again.

Two weeks for a 90 minutes video is an entirely realistic timeframe.

Do apply your knowledge of fansubbing to fansubbing if you wish, because honestly that's all it applies to. We're talking about professional work here. It's a tad different.

The whole issue and the original topic of the thread is not "we're not getting info" but "info was promised at day x, no information on why it was delayed." And that's a world of difference

The whole issue of the topic is that there are people that know nothing about marketing thinking that they know better on what SE should do with their marketing. Which is honestly laughable at best.

[Soukyuu]

As a matter of fact, I did. The difference is that I did it professionally, as I worked for an anime localization company for six years. Mind you, I took up the episode after the translation, from adaptation to subtitling and voice acting supervision, so the process had already been going for a while before it got to me.

So, your answer to my question is "no", as you were only in charge for a part of the project.

So yeah, I know quite well the difference between fan translation and subtitling and the professional equivalent. They're nothing alike, and the fact that you compare them is honestly a tad ridiculous.

I have all the respect of the world for fansubbers and the effort they put in for free, but comparing their work to the procedures necessary for a professional translation is honestly out of the world.

Nothing ridiculous about it, considering the majority of anime translations I saw from fans was a higher quality product in the end than the official ones. And this is what I don't understand, if those procedures you mention are meant to increase quality, why don't official releases have typeset signs? VOB subs are bitmaps, so typesetting is possible. Why does the official translation sound so stiff in so many cases? Lastly, why is the quality of official DVDs/BDs inferior to (good) fan-encoded mkvs? That's getting off topic though, so I'll leave it at that.

When you translate any marketing-related material to a different language (or three), it needs to be greenlighted again from scratch, because even a good translator can easily change the wording of a concept that, especially when talking about unreleased game mechanics, can make a whole lot of difference. Which means that it has to be double-checked by someone involved in development and then by marketing.

*Every* piece of promotional material released by a company will have to be greenlighted by marketing. No company with any bit of sanity would skip that passage. That's what marketing is for.

When you submit finished promotional material to marketing, they won't suddenly drop whatever they're doing and get to your stuff. It'll be put in queue and addressed as soon as possible. And then if something doesn't add up, marketing doesn't simply correct it and then greenlights it. It has to go back to the translator and then be greenlighted again.

Two weeks for a 90 minutes video is an entirely realistic timeframe.

Let's assume that's what happens here. Is it really that hard for them to gives us an update when that happens?

The whole issue of the topic is that there are people that know nothing about marketing thinking that they know better on what SE should do with their marketing. Which is honestly laughable at best.

When did I ever tell them how they have to market stuff? I merely wanted to know why the information is being delayed. You're interpreting way too much into what is being said.

[Mug]

The whole issue of the topic is that there are people that know nothing about marketing thinking that they know better on what SE should do with their marketing. Which is honestly laughable at best.

Actually, that wasn't why I started this topic at all. Yoshida speficially said we would get an update early this week. It didn't happen. He also said we would get weekly updates from Gamescom and onwards. That didn't happen either. I agree that this topic has ended up about something completely different, but I just felt I needed to clarify that wasn't my intent.

Also, I can only speak for myself, but I'm more likely to listen to an opinion that is different than mine if it's said in a tone that does not belittle. I realise that you're not the only one at fault here, but conversations in this forum would be so much more interesting if people jusr showed a little more respect for each other. =)

[Abriael]

So, your answer to my question is "no", as you were only in charge for a part of the project.

Considering that I also covered the role of art director first and production direction later. The question is not. While I didn't do translation directly as my Japanese isn't good enough, I was in charge of the whole project quite a few times.

Nothing ridiculous about it, considering the majority of anime translations I saw from fans was a higher quality product in the end than the official ones. And this is what I don't understand, if those procedures you mention are meant to increase quality, why don't official releases have typeset signs? VOB subs are bitmaps, so typesetting is possible. Why does the official translation sound so stiff in so many cases? Lastly, why is the quality of official DVDs/BDs inferior to (good) fan-encoded mkvs? That's getting off topic though, so I'll leave it at that.

You're comparing (good) fan encoded anime with (bad) professionally made ones. Quality varies from company to company. The bad ones have more lax procedures and less passages in production, the good ones have more tight procedures and more production steps. Simple example is the presence of a different professional figure for translation and adaptation. Good companies will have both (and thus will have two steps in the translation process, which implies more time and resources spent on it), as a good native speaker Japanese translator and a good Native speaker (insert target language here) adaptation scriptwriter will inevitably produce an higher quality script than a (albeit good) translator that does everything by himself.

A good professional localization team will easily trounce any fansubber, no matter if good or not, in term of quality, even simply out of resources, direct or indirect access to the original creators and tighter quality assurance process.

Let's assume that's what happens here. Is it really that hard for them to gives us an update when that happens?

To have to read the usual endless stream of unjustified negativity? Please.

When did I ever tell them how they have to market stuff? I merely wanted to know why the information is being delayed. You're interpreting way too much into what is being said.

You're assuming that that part was related to you. It wasn't.

Also, I can only speak for myself, but I'm more likely to listen to an opinion that is different than mine if it's said in a tone that does not belittle. I realise that you're not the only one at fault here, but conversations in this forum would be so much more interesting if people jusr showed a little more respect for each other. =)

After two years, I'm just getting a tad tired on the negligible things people manage to complain about, without mentioning those that have absolutely no idea of the processes involved in this kind of industry, but still come here like they knew better, belittling those working on this game in a rather unsavory way.

I had hoped to see that change, considering the rather unprecedented efforts the team is putting in righting what went wrong with the inituial release. Unfortunately I had to be disappointed. The internet never changes.

@Jennestia: "basic information you should know" in a game barely in alpha?

Please. That kind of detailed information is often covered by NDA even in closed beta for most major MMORPG releases.

new players aren't attracted by detailed information. They don't go read complex pages that describe mechanics. They read generic lists of features, they read previews, watch screenshots and trailers, read reviews, watch commercials, see ads, and go buy games mostly out of gut feeling and generic looks. Detailed information on mechanics is absolutely irrelevant in drawing new players.

Which is what I'm talking about when I mention people knowing nothing about marketing. They tend to confuse what they want (or their own very personal verision of "common sense") with what appeases the general public, which is the most basic mistake one could make in that field.

As a matter of fact, and I apologize if it's rather brutal, marketing-wise we're pretty irrelevant. What we, as current players of the game want to know is pretty much a secondary priority, as we're already in the bag. We'll play ARR at least for a month whatever SE does or shows, because we have that month for free, even more so if we held out this long in the first incarnation of the game. SE doesn't need to direct their marketing towards us pretty much at all.

[Soukyuu]

You're assuming that that part was related to you. It wasn't.

If it wasn't related to me, why are you acting like I pissed in your teacup?

After two years, I'm just getting a tad tired on the negligible things people manage to complain about, without mentioning those that have absolutely no idea of the processes involved in this kind of industry, but still come here like they knew better, belittling those working on this game in a rather unsavory way.

That's the point though, we aren't belittling anyone. I specifically said that my example of official releases being bad is based on my experience with the anime industry, not the gaming industry. So that had nothing to do with SE. And doesn't justify you acting the way you do.

This thread, as Mug himself said, isn't about belittling anyone or telling someone how they have to market stuff, but a simple inquiry about why the information was delayed.

[whoopeeragon]

If it wasn't related to me, why are you acting like I pissed in your teacup?

Seeing as we're all pretty much pissing all over one another as well as SE, maybe it'll be better to just take a chill pill and not assume every indirect/direct insult or disrespectful comment is flung at you.

[Soukyuu]

Seeing as we're all pretty much pissing all over one another as well as SE, maybe it'll be better to just take a chill pill and not assume every indirect/direct insult or disrespectful comment is flung at you.

if someone quotes a post then proceeds to rant about something, it's only natural to assume this something is related to whatever was quoted, don't you think?

Anyway, with the topic of the thread hopefully clarified, can we go back to it?

[Mug]

After two years, I'm just getting a tad tired on the negligible things people manage to complain about, without mentioning those that have absolutely no idea of the processes involved in this kind of industry, but still come here like they knew better, belittling those working on this game in a rather unsavory way.

I'm not sure if you're referring to me, but I just want them to keep their promises, that's all.

[Abriael]

If it wasn't related to me, why are you acting like I pissed in your teacup?

My first responses weren't to you. Then you started defending that rather petty attitude.

That's the point though, we aren't belittling anyone. I specifically said that my example of official releases being bad is based on my experience with the anime industry, not the gaming industry. So that had nothing to do with SE. And doesn't justify you acting the way you do.

Besides the fact that fansubbing isn't the "anime industry" (it isn't part of any industry, at all), the demanding and condescending tone of your posts isn't exactly an ointment for nerves to read. If you want to be treated nicely, you may want to start on your own. I have enough of a thick skin to bear responses to my own tone (that mind you, does nothing else than telling people "hey, buy some realism, because you need it, you're behaving like babies that didn't get candy", which is entirely true). If you don't, you may want to tone it down.

This thread, as Mug himself said, isn't about belittling anyone or telling someone how they have to market stuff, but a simple inquiry about why the information was delayed.

May want to read some of the responses around here, according to which "common sense" dictates that SE does it marketing differently way, hilarious at best, petty at worst.

I'm not sure if you're referring to me, but I just want them to keep their promises, that's all.

I want them to "keep their promises" in releasing a great game. A whole thread complaining about a bit of information not released on time is indeed rather petty, especially when people start harping on it like that missing bit of info is the end of the world and start behaving like they've been somewhat wronged.

Information about games in alpha comes when it's finalized and ready to be released. It's that simple, and it's always been like that. If it hasn't, it means that there has been an hold up. It'll come when it'll be time.