Seems like alot of people want this game to become Free 2 Play. >.>

[Tonkra]

Let's see.

1. Crappy standard lore

What exactly makes it crappy? What exactly makes it standard? Do you actually know the lore of the Guild Wars universe? I don't claim to be an aficionado, but the lore and storyline are far from generic or standard. In fact a lot of people love the lore and universe.

Well it was something like "rescuing" the white deer (sylvari storyline), which was not that kind of special stories which we are used to get in a Final Fantasy. thats western standard to me. no?

the storyline which we experience now in the end is much more epic to me. some call it maybe kitchy.. i call it epic.

2. Crappy animations

Oh really? What exactly makes them crappy? Would you prefer the animation lock of XIV or the floatyness that has been apparent in every 2.0 trailer? Maybe you want some ragdoll physics?

well the animations are just awful and unfluent. while in Final Fantasy the animations looking from time to time just really realistic... like it was made with motion capturing.. the animations in GW2 look just so not fluent.. and ugly.. like the spell effects, which are some kind of a joke compared to the trailers before.

the "geyser" looks just like a very very small water fontain etc.. compare the standard attacks from GW witht he WS that of a Monk or dragoon. there are just WORLDS in between, WORLDS. even in 2.0.

and on the other side i think you really cant compare it.. GW2 just has a complete different art style which goes more into the stylized direction.

3. No real group play

Good luck in dungeons. Let's see how you solo that. Heaven forbid that we can actually help anyone out on the field and get rewarded for it. Why has making parties become the hallmark? Why not be able to help anyone anywhere? You need a party to get the more difficult content done.

And yeah, I love how group play is so important. Shouting for an event that you need a piece of gear from is really fun. I love that.

oh come on.. you cant be serious... do you mean thousand of anonymous groups in GW2 when playing public quests like in warhammer or rift? (which wasnt any new to me by the way, because of playing WAR etc.)

and dungeons in GW2 are more endgame content than low and mid level content.. while in FF you played in a group almost from the beginning on. which i havent seen for long time in the MMorpg genre where you almost grinded through solo quests.

well we'll have to see how 2.0. is going to be. but it promises also group quests and leveling through content like low level dungeon instances.


i dont say that you cant have fun in GW2. go ahead.. but dont say that i should have fun with it, too because the reviews are so "good".. no, its not my kind of game after playing the betas... seriously. its just a media hype for me.

[Laraul]

I honestly don't think the people complaining about free to play know anything about it... let alone ever tried it. When people make such grand generalizations like "F2P always means bad graphics" and "all F2P becomes Play 2 Win" you know these people are talking thru their back sides.

[EyCee]

I'm going to put on my skeptical tin hat and call the OP out on this "alot of people" wanting XIV to be free to play. "Alot" is such a broad range and it's not representative of this community as you can see with all the replies on this thread. I need solid proof that people want a F2P XIV.

Another proof of XIV not going to F2P anytime soon is what everyone is seeing right now. SE changing direction, admitting the failure and re-designing the game from the ground up within 2 months after the first release are proof enough (to me) that F2P is far from SE's minds.

So in short, give me proof that "alot of people" want a XIV F2P because right now I'm not buying it.

[Elexia]

I honestly don't think the people complaining about free to play know anything about it... let alone ever tried it. When people make such grand generalizations like "F2P always means bad graphics" and "all F2P becomes Play 2 Win" you know these people are talking thru their back sides.

Sounds like you've only played mainstreams MMO or purposefully ignoring the fact if you take a look at any MMO portal you'll see one thing in common with pretty much every single one of the MMOs they'll offer.

Seriously, have you ever touched more than 1 F2P ever? I'm going with no since we're telling people they've never tried F2P MMOs before.

[Tonkra]

I honestly don't think the people complaining about free to play know anything about it... let alone ever tried it. When people make such grand generalizations like "F2P always means bad graphics" and "all F2P becomes Play 2 Win" you know these people are talking thru their back sides.

and which F2P you are activley playing? People talk about f2p being so great, but what games of these f2p's are you actually really playing active?

i think we, who are paying for Final Fantasy XIV right now is a completely different clientele which plays for example "Lineage II truly free" now. maybe a big audience which is attracted to a F2P are teenagers who cant efford a p2p.. or what kind ever..
i am playing sometimes AION or L2... but its maybe... 2 hours a week or somethin? its more like "oh i am bored... i play that for some minutes, because it doesnt cost anything".

these games gave up being worth to pay for.. and you recognize this from time to time. well at least i have that impression and not such a big interest in it.. for no F2P which i actually know.
Neither AoC,LOTR,SWTOR,AION or whatever.

[Preypacer]

No, it's more of wanting to actually be on an equal playing field. With P2P it's straightforward. You either feel you get your money's worth, or you don't and base your decision to keep playing or not on that. At the end of the day assuming everyone has only one sub they're all paying the same exact price. With F2P you have to factor in a lot of other things. Is there a playtime limit? Do you need to pay real cash for items? How about content limits? Gacha coins? When F2P is done "right" you don't feel as if you need to spend money to progress, but want to because what they're offering is appealing and not rammed down your throat.

But come on. Be honest; just how often are F2P models done "right"? I can't really speak for GW2 as I obviously haven't played it yet, but I've played several online games over the years and only really feel that one title has ever found a nice balance, that being Phantasy Star Online 2.

A F2P done right is just as fine as P2P done right. In that same way, a fine cut of meat can be prepared just as well as a professional chef as someone with no real formal training. It's possible, but it's really, really unlikely to happen. That's why so many people in general are opposed to the F2P model. It has much more potential to nickel and dime someone then actually turn out well, and if such poor practices become widespread, then it would be a real shame for the genre. Certainly not for the businesses, but definitely for the genre as a whole save for the people who had no intention of spending money on anything regardless of what it may be.

First, a request: If we're talking about F2P, can we not use GW2 as an example? GW2 is not free to play. Free means "you don't have to spend anything for it". You have to spend about $60 to play GW2. That is not free. That's why people call it Buy To Play; B2P with cash shop in GW2's case. It's actually considered a third revenue model.

That out of the way...

My problem with F2P MMOs with Cash Shops is that, out of necessity, the entire game must be designed around the idea of selling items. If the cash shop doesn't make money, the developers don't make money, the game gets shut down. That's understandable, however, I don't personally like that approach. I don't like the idea that every moment I'm logged in and playing, some aspect of the game I'm interacting with is, in some manner, deliberately tweaked to make my progress a bit slower, or a bit less convenient... all the while I'm seeing ads for "50% off!" for items designed specifically to by-pass or negate those speed bumps and inconveniences.

One of the best descriptions I've ever seen for cash shop MMOs was on another website's forums, and it was this:
"All one has to do is take a step back for a moment and notice all the pot-holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt".

That sums it up perfectly. The pot-holes are designed into the game deliberately, so more asphalt will sell on the cash shop.

A problem (as I see it) with the argument against F2P/Cash Shops is that people are often focusing on the wrong thing. When Cash Shops come up, the first thing many people go to is "pay to win items". It's a relevant concern, but it's not what should be the main focus, I think. Those high-ticket, uber-powerful items aren't the bread-and-butter items for these games. They're more of a deterrent to many people than a benefit, in fact. The items that make them the money on a consistent basis are the consumables. The items that people will buy, use up, buy again, use up, buy again, etc.

The entire game is balanced - or imbalanced, if you'd like - around the idea of selling as much of those items as possible. And they're often designed to go against what players demonstrate as being important to them.

It's pretty clear that leveling quickly is a priority for many players. So what do they do? They increase the xp curve. It starts off very subtle, and then increases over time so they can sell more xp potions. In the meantime, the efficacy of the ones that drop or are sold in-game (if they do at all) decreases, making the cash shop versions all the more cumpulsory - unless you want to spend a lot more time grinding. Of course, you can do that, but then you have to consume more of the next items...

HP and Mana pots. Early on they'll fall off mobs like candy from a pinata. They're easily purchasable in the stores, and do their job quite well. However, over time, they too lose their effectiveness. At some point, they simply aren't useful anymore, and yet the mobs just keep hitting harder and that MP pool keeps draining faster. But hey look! The cash shop has these neat and nifty HP and MP pots on sale! They're far better than anything you could possibly get in-game. Time to pull out the credit card!

So if they didn't get you on the xp potions, no big deal.. they'll just hook you with the HP/MP pots instead.

Ever notice how the F2Ps with the most restrictive inventory space seem to require you to carry around the most junk in terms of quest items, or objects that "have to be kept in your inventory to be effective", etc? Yeah. That's another way they do it.

Travel time seems too slow? Well, hey look at these nifty swift mounts you can purchase!

And so on.

And you know what? While I agree and believe that if someone's perfectly a-okay with that kind of payment model, then more power to them. It's not my place to say "no, you can't". It's your time, it's your money. Spend it how you want.

For my money, though, I'd much rather know that when I log into a game, every encounter I have has been reviewed and balanced to be do-able purely with the resources and items available to me in-game - no matter what my level is. I like to know that how well or poorly I do against mobs in terms of MP consumption or how fast my HP is depleting is entirely dependent on my approach to the game. I like to know that the designers, who ever and where ever they are, are putting their time and energy, and my subscription dollars, into creating content that is intended to engage and entertain me and make me want to keep playing and paying my subscription because I'm having fun. I want to feel like those designers and developers are working to earn my subscription money month after month.

On the other hand, the idea that pretty much every moment I'm logged in to a F2P/Cash Shop MMO - and more so as time goes on - some aspect of the game I'm interacting with - likely multiple aspects - is/are designed specifically to part me with my money as much as possible, just does not sit well with me at all.

I'd much rather know that my box and subscription dollar is going toward creating new ways to challenge, entertain and engage me, than that it's going toward finding new ways to "monetize me".

If SE ever went F2P and had a Cash Shop in this game, that's when I would say "adieu" and walk away. I'll put up with all that's gone on with them over the past couple years since launch. I would not put up with that.

[Mijin]

Free to Play = Pay to Win

{Thank's for the offer, but I'll have to pass}

[Ingolf]

Free to Play = Pay to Win

{Thank's for the offer, but I'll have to pass}

Are you retarded?

[Griss]

Guild wars 2 is not exactly free to play now is it? Free to play Means there is no up front cost to get into the game and play. and then the company monitizes the back end. Yes you can play Gw2 all you want for free, After you pony up and buy the game.

I have not experienced many big budget free to play mmo's. but the ones I have dabbled in have been a mixed bag of pretty darn decent to out right predatory cash grabs where power is up for sale. Though honestly the best one i can think of off hand is DDO.

It's interesting though when you get away from the whack-a-mole math magic style rpg's and visit the multiplayer online rage arenas.. er moba's or cruise over to first person shooty town. You see a lot of really good f2p systems you also see a bunch of sort of ok and a bunch of crappy ones.

Getting down to brass tacks on the subject. At the end of the day its just another model to recoup the cost of making said game and hopefully turn a profit. Hell we don't know whats in store for the future this game square may yet make a transition to a hybrid or full on f2p model. Done correctly every body is happy. People get a cool game to dick around in, People who dig it give the company money. And most importantly the guys working there asses off to make and maintain the blasted thing get to eat and have fancy things like electricy for there homes.

[Jennestia]

Are you retarded?

If you play a lot of F2P MMOs you'll learn very quickly that in order to get ahead you will have to spend a lot of money on it -- This is the common theme of F2P, some deviate but it's silly to ignore this is actually true.