Seems like alot of people want this game to become Free 2 Play. >.>

[Ingolf]

F2P MMOs you wide up paying alot more than P2P, If you choose to stick with "free" then you probably won't get anywhere in almost any F2P MMO's. either that or it will take you a long time to reach max. Its just that when people here the word free they jump all over it and in their subconscious minds Its the best deal in the market, but when they start paying for stuff Is a F2P MMO worth 180 bucks worth of micro-transactions? Yet that's another subjective thing :P.

Well actually, in most microtransaction (pay to win) based games, you wouldn't spent $180 yearly to reach the highest level and see everything. I don't agree with pay to win, but most f2p MMOs that are starting to emerge aren't pay to win.

Microtransactions are fine when they only offer cosmetics and services, especially when they are all obtainable in game (GW2 for example)

As for the lesser graphics, well XIV currently has the best MMO graphics out there, but that has lead partly to the failure of the game due to it not being accessible to a wider audience (and why they're scaling back in 2.0). Most MMOs could have higher graphics, pretty easily... XIV is a stark and poignant reminded on why this is a bad idea.

Free to play doesn't automatically mean "bad", and p2p doesn't automatically mean "good". It's more based on how they handle themselves. Both methods are fine.

[neorei]

Listen to the audio. It gives great reasons why the p2p model is slowly starting to fail. Shunning a game because it doesn't have a subscription fee is very foolish. If you're truly getting $180 worth of gaming a year with a p2p MMO, then so be it.

Well for about a majority of us we honestly don't have a problem with the P2P because it's really cheap for us. in matter in fact the p2p for ffxiv is pretty cheap also. As for mirco transactions in GW2, that shit is pay to win. Because it'll give you armor boosters, XP boosters, Guild boosters, and you can exchange gems (which you buy with RL money) for gold therefore you can basically pay for an expensive item in AH (once their AH is up lol).

[Faiyez]

ARR is relaunching and it is likely that there will be less people jumping in compared to last time. The best argument against P2P is that it leads to a reduced player base, possibly low enough to risk failure, allowing the game to be called a flop. Let's face it, there are better MMO's out there with more mainstream appeal. The P2P model is just too difficult to sustain in today's market.

My guess is that they will continue losing money on ARR, no matter how good the game might turn out. I hope I'm wrong, though. A realistic aim is to make it work with a reduced dedicated player base and few servers, because this game was designed for P2P and should remain that way.

[Ingolf]

@GW2
well it having good reviews i personally had not that much fun.

crappy standard story lore. crappy animations and graphics... no real group play.. well no... i stay with FF14 2.0. and play the FF universe and have real content that pushes group play... reviews are not all.
your own taste and preferations are most important for a MMO

Let's see.

1. Crappy standard lore

What exactly makes it crappy? What exactly makes it standard? Do you actually know the lore of the Guild Wars universe? I don't claim to be an aficionado, but the lore and storyline are far from generic or standard. In fact a lot of people love the lore and universe.

2. Crappy animations

Oh really? What exactly makes them crappy? Would you prefer the animation lock of XIV or the floatyness that has been apparent in every 2.0 trailer? Maybe you want some ragdoll physics?

3. No real group play

Good luck in dungeons. Let's see how you solo that. Heaven forbid that we can actually help anyone out on the field and get rewarded for it. Why has making parties become the hallmark? Why not be able to help anyone anywhere? You need a party to get the more difficult content done.

And yeah, I love how group play is so important. Shouting for an event that you need a piece of gear from is really fun. I love that.

[Delsus]

Well for about a majority of us we honestly don't have a problem with the P2P because it's really cheap for us. in matter in fact the p2p for ffxiv is pretty cheap also. As for mirco transactions in GW2, that shit is pay to win. Because it'll give you armor boosters, XP boosters, Guild boosters, and you can exchange gems (which you buy with RL money) for gold therefore you can basically pay for an expensive item in AH (once their AH is up lol).

You mean GW2 doesn't have an AH atm???? Omg instafail (remind you of anything :P)

And pay to win games are all over XP booseters, lockboxes, gear, the best ships, the best addons, the best anything are in most cash shops, its how they make money a lot more people will buy a weapon that will do more damage, than a sexy subligar for a vanity slot.

[Xatsh]

F2P games end up shifting the cost of playing to the serious players of the game. Anyone not just playing really casually will end up shelling out 2-3xs the average monthly P2P sub fees to just stay competitive in the game. Imaging being in a serious endgame shell that requires you to pay $30-40 a month to be in it, because you need to stay on top of things. Sounds like bs but that is a p2w(f2p) mmo.

I would not care if it went F2P but only if there was a sub option where you get unlimited bonuses that F2P could buy. So more or less for the $9.99/month you get what would cost the average f2p person $30-40/month. Aka why would anyone choose f2p unless they are Demoing the game I do not know.

I do not get where f2p is the future... yea every mmo is going free to play... but also every mmo is failing hardcore since the launch of WoW because people keep copying a proven failed model (only WoW has succeeded in using it the other dozen or so have not). GW2 is the first serious mmo I seen that has started as F2P, and I hope that game is not the future of mmos or the genre is screwed.

[Ingolf]

Well for about a majority of us we honestly don't have a problem with the P2P because it's really cheap for us. in matter in fact the p2p for ffxiv is pretty cheap also. As for mirco transactions in GW2, that shit is pay to win. Because it'll give you armor boosters, XP boosters, Guild boosters, and you can exchange gems (which you buy with RL money) for gold therefore you can basically pay for an expensive item in AH (once their AH is up lol).

All of these things can't be used in pvp.

So how exactly is it pay to win? You can also get these things from in game by converting gold to gems, or opening black lion chests.

Guild boosters just let you get services like guild banks (faster, it's all do-able with in game progress, and it's not hard at all) What do you define as pay to win? You have no advantage over anyone.

[Ingolf]

You mean GW2 doesn't have an AH atm???? Omg instafail (remind you of anything :P)

And pay to win games are all over XP booseters, lockboxes, gear, the best ships, the best addons, the best anything are in most cash shops, its how they make money a lot more people will buy a weapon that will do more damage, than a sexy subligar for a vanity slot.

It does have an AH, it's currently down for maintenance, but it goes up regularly.

[Ingolf]

Just in case anyone is really curious here is the gem store

Do you have any problem with anything they're offering?

I'll also remind you that you get roughly (at level 25) 1 silver piece from each event. There are hundreds of events constantly happening, and it probably roughly takes 5 minutes to complete one. (depending on the difficulty obviously)

You also get gold as a drop commonly. I would say that roughly, per hour you would make (at level 25) about 20 silver an hour.

20 silver translates into about 100 gems. (it fluctuates)

[Enma]

F2P games have to make money in a different way. So at the end there is no real difference between paying a fixed amount of money each month or spend money (and you don't even know how much) on a F2P for other things than subscription.