Auto-attack

[Linnear]

Auto attack is a step backwards while the rest of the genre is moving forwards with more of an action style of combat. It doesn't really make a lot of sense.

Care to bless us with an example of the genre moving away from this? Also manually implementing commands has been around since pong so no it is NOT a step backwards. AA is newer and allows for more advances tactics at the higher end of the game, and by higher end I don't mean being rank 50 and farming mobs, I mean actual encounters, (which still don't exist...) Like I said before numerous times, just saying AA is a step in the past does not make it true. At the very least try to provide an argument for your ideas.

[Dreamer]

Care to bless us with an example of the genre moving away from this? Also manually implementing commands has been around since pong so no it is NOT a step backwards. AA is newer and allows for more advances tactics at the higher end of the game, and by higher end I don't mean being rank 50 and farming mobs, I mean actual encounters, (which still don't exist...) Like I said before numerous times, just saying AA is a step in the past does not make it true. At the very least try to provide an argument for your ideas.

There's a reason why offline games don't use this mechanic. It's simply boring. The only reason it is popular in MMOs is because it helps compensate for ping times. How much fun do you think the combat in Elder Scrolls would be if instead of having manual control your character just swung once per second automatically?

I wouldn't say AA is a step backwards, but it's definitely not an ideal solution. The sooner the genre moves towards more real-time combat, the better. SWTOR isn't using it, neither is GW2 (the auto-attack there is more like a toggle for any ability rather than what we're referring to here). DDO, which has one of the better combat systems in MMOs, doesn't use it even though the combat is still semi-turn-based. One of the more interesting titles coming out soon, The Secret World, doesn't use auto-attack.

The sooner this mechanic goes the way of the dodo, the better. Hence why I'm rather agitated they're rebuilding their combat system around it.

[gifthorse]

There's a reason why offline games don't use this mechanic. It's simply boring. The only reason it is popular in MMOs is because it helps compensate for ping times. How much fun do you think the combat in Elder Scrolls would be if instead of having manual control your character just swung once per second automatically?

I wouldn't say AA is a step backwards, but it's definitely not an ideal solution. The sooner the genre moves towards more real-time combat, the better. SWTOR isn't using it, neither is GW2 (the auto-attack there is more like a toggle for any ability rather than what we're referring to here). DDO, which has one of the better combat systems in MMOs, doesn't use it even though the combat is still semi-turn-based. One of the more interesting titles coming out soon, The Secret World, doesn't use auto-attack.

The sooner this mechanic goes the way of the dodo, the better. Hence why I'm rather agitated they're rebuilding their combat system around it.

Exactly. It's just sad that they think spamming actions was a necessary evil of the original system. It isn't. Guild Wars 2, SWTOR, TERA, Blade & Soul, DCUO, basically every next-gen MMO has active combat. If FFXIV thinks it can compete with auto-attack... well they're right. They can always compete in the special olypmics.

[Xzen]

Exactly. It's just sad that they think spamming actions was a necessary evil of the original system. It isn't. Guild Wars 2, SWTOR, TERA, Blade & Soul, DCUO, basically every next-gen MMO has active combat. If FFXIV thinks it can compete with auto-attack... well they're right. They can always compete in the special olypmics.

Thats why I think combat like we see in the FFXIII Versus trailers would be the new way to do combat in MMOs today. Although I don't know if their current game engine could be adapted to make combat like that in FFXIV.

[Naqaj]

Thats why I think combat like we see in the FFXIII Versus trailers would be the new way to do combat in MMOs today. Although I don't know if their current game engine could be adapted to make combat like that in FFXIV.

Doesn't XIV share the same engine with XIII and Versus?

[Boricua]

Doesn't XIV share the same engine with XIII and Versus?

I would say yes, in terms of the ATB gauge is now the Stamina bar, but you can't really queue commands outside of the cumbersome battle regimens. In other words you can't do:

Spirit Dart > Fire II > Sleep

all against the same mob. Honestly that wouldn't be too bad to implement FFXIII's auto-attack system where you hit 'auto' and commands are automatically placed onto Stamina bar (that a mob is vulnerable to), stacked.

[Physic]

well, i was afraid this would happen when i kind of lost interest with the skill change decision,

Auto Attack was a bad idea, sure it felt spammy when you were level 1-16 or so, but once you hit 20 and got access to additional class tp builders, and more skills, the system started to come together.

The problem with most people, especially new people, is they think of tp building skills as just to get to your weaponskill skills, the tp builders change your whole way of playing, for pug, they have heavy strike, flurry and lightstrike, to play well you mix up all of these to adapt to the situation. you do light for defense and evasion, mix in heavy for dmg, or you can choose to go with flurry. later on you get the tp building one that allows you to be more defensive while still being a threat with tp skills, flurry and heavy for high dps, light and whatever the tp enhanced one was, for tanking, or keeping your utility in mind, also, spam was not condusive to countering, or watching for special conditions. Add to that several higher end mobs made spamming not the best way, some mobs you didnt want to attack at certain times, if you need to lower your hate you simply stop, on gladiator classes, managing your stamina and waiting to attack was huge. In truth when you learned the battle system it was really great, one of the better battle systems in mmo's right now.

The biggest problem was communication mid battle.

But now its going to be totally gone, which is sad because in all honesty the main problems with this game were not in the battle system, i hope they will make something good, but going by thier sp fix, it will probably be some sort of patch to try to make it like an older system, which kind of sucked, and doesnt fit with the mechanics of the rest of the game. Now its really just wait and see, because its kind of pointless to even discuss AA when we have no idea what the new battle system will be like or the rules it will follow.

[Naqaj]

I would say yes, in terms of the ATB gauge is now the Stamina bar, but you can't really queue commands outside of the cumbersome battle regimens. In other words you can't do:

Spirit Dart > Fire II > Sleep

all against the same mob. Honestly that wouldn't be too bad to implement FFXIII's auto-attack system where you hit 'auto' and commands are automatically placed onto Stamina bar (that a mob is vulnerable to), stacked.

That's not the engine, that would be the combat interface. I don't think that's what XZen meant, he was talking about the fast and kinetic combat in Versus, in contrast to the stationary fights in XIV.