Auto-attack

[Bearious]

I have not seen one post on this entire thread that actually looks at the overall goals for the implementation of the auto-attack. It is very clear that the launch of FFXIV did not go so well. Poll results show that over 85% voted yes when asked "Would you welcome changes to FINAL FANTASY XIV that would drastically alter the rules already set in Eorzea?" We, voted yes on that so everyone needs to stop crying now that they are doing something about it. The fact of the matter is, is that the auto-attack will do wonders to FFXIV's combat system. Currently using your basic attack does nothing to actually add skill or tactic into combat (except promote stamina management). The only reason for having a basic attack is to generate TP to use your useful skills. By automating this process, they are taking focus away from basic attack spamming and putting the focus onto useful abilities that promote skill and tactics in team play. People need to be looking at the real focus of this implementation to see that it is truly necessary. Yes, it is true that removing the current system will make combat less involving at low ranks. However, SE is not focusing on making combat exciting for rank 1's. The truth is that the implementation of auto-attack will do wonders for high rank play, making it much more skillful. That is why everyone one of us plays this game. We play to rank up, and as we rank up, there needs to be more of a challenge to keep the gameplay interesting. When you have 30 different abilities at rank 50, you should not be spamming one of them for 80% of the fight. By implementing the auto-attack, they are implementing SKILL and TACTICS into FFXIV at high rank play. I don't see how anyone can argue against that.

[Bearious]

I am on the fence with Auto Attack. For melee jobs that are in a monster's face beating it to death, then I wouldn't mind seeing AA. On the other hand, I hate the idea of having AA on a mage job or even a ranger for that matter. Hate control is key for these roles and having your character continuously build hate when you don't want it to is NOT helpful. Here is a refresher on how we avoided it in FFXI and why it won't work as good here(or at all):

• Stay out of range: Mages now have long-range attack. You are no longer "spooning" them to death, so this won't work.
• Turn around: The main way to avoid AA from FFXI as to just turn away from the enemy. Unfortunately, in FFXIV monsters can do extra damage to you when you are turned around. Plus, many skills turn you around, like healing.
• Put away your weapon: Mages in FFXIV can use shields, so putting away your weapon means you just lost your blocking. It also increases the time it takes to cast, as now you have to waste animation time waiting on your character to go back to fighting stance.

Of course, all of this could be resolved by simply giving us the option of whether we want AA on. For my mages and ranger... you're royally screwing up my hate management. Everything else? I don't care either way. I mean, they can adjust hate management as well, but to what end? You have to keep adjusting more and more just to solve something that could be done with a flip of a switch. We'd just have to "educate" people on a constant basis to turn off their bloody AA when they are a mage though, hah!

So in the end, you want AA... fine... just let my mage turn the thing off.

Your missing the simple fact that there will be an attack button. You will click that button to begin auto-attacking and you can click that button again to stop auto-attacking...

[Bearious]

Dear Dreamer,

Every one of your "actual arguments" against AA is completely incorrect.

1. No auto-attack means you are in control of your character. You character attacks when you tell it to. Enemy charging a retaliation counter, mobs CC'd, or Reflect up on your target? Not a problem.

The implementation of AA will only give you far greater control of your character. Stun abilities will be implemented, to skillfully counter an enemies move (and this stun ability will be much easier to use since you will not be basic attack spamming). As for the argument for CC, there will be a button that is called "attack". This revolutionary feature will allow you to begin auto-attacking when you press it AND stop auto-attacking when you press it again...

2. No auto-attack means you set the pace of the battle. Should you keep yourself steady and fight a battle of finesse and attrition, or gut your stamina bar trying to take down that imp before it has a chance to cast and rock your world? It's up to you.

This is also completely incorrect. This "setting the pace of battle" you speak of, is actually only the pace at which you run out of stamina from basic attacking. In any difficult battle you are going to want to kill the monster as fast as possible. This means that your stamina will be at about 20% the entire fight as you spam your abilities as fast as possible. There is no skill in conserving your stamina when you get no benefit for doing so.

3. No auto-attack means you're involved. I'm not sure how Satohiko Matsui can claim AA doesn't make battles easier with a straight face. Plenty of posters have mentioned plainly on these same forums that they prefer to be able watch TV while battling. If not having to even pay attention to a battle isn't an indication of what AA does for a battle system, I'm not sure what is.

More involved is a misleading phrase. You will not be any more involved with the new system than you were with the old system. However, with the auto-attack you will be involved in a much more skillful way at high rank play. If you want a more thorough description of why this is true, I advise you to read my original post above.

I'd just like to make it clear that is wasn't a post of why the implementation of AA is beneficial. This was just a post to show Dreamer why his arguments against AA are incorrect. As I have already stated, if you would like to see my full post of why AA is actually beneficial please look above.

PS - I do hope you attempt to argue against me Dreamer

[Reika]

^----------------- Blowing smoke.

[Hitoriki]

There is no extra strategy added to the game by manually button-smashing your basic attacks. Therefore, automating the process couldn't really hurt. Though I hope such a change would accompany various other modifications to mold the battle system into something more instantaneous.

Choosing your action and then waiting for it to happen is just... stupid. Unless you're actually casting a spell.

QFT. Auto attack definitely would not hurt. I would love it as its a pain having to go back to a basic attack every time you do something. Having it be automated would be much better.

[EpicDaze]

The auto-attack is final fantasy. I am disappointed that SE felt the need to change the Final Fantasy template that has been around since I started playing FF1. I feel SE has insulted and abandoned the FF purests in the interest in making the game playable by all ages and skill levels (lack there of) in the persuit of the all mighty dollar.

[Teknoman]

I'm not really biased towards either side...but how does the statement "Auto-attack is final fantasy" make any sense? Unless you were being sarcastic and that flew over my head...no FF game aside from XI and XII has had a normal auto attack.

[Xzen]

Auto attack is a step backwards while the rest of the genre is moving forwards with more of an action style of combat. It doesn't really make a lot of sense.

[Linnear]

Auto attack is a step backwards while the rest of the genre is moving forwards with more of an action style of combat. It doesn't really make a lot of sense.

Care to bless us with an example of the genre moving away from this? Also manually implementing commands has been around since pong so no it is NOT a step backwards. AA is newer and allows for more advances tactics at the higher end of the game, and by higher end I don't mean being rank 50 and farming mobs, I mean actual encounters, (which still don't exist...) Like I said before numerous times, just saying AA is a step in the past does not make it true. At the very least try to provide an argument for your ideas.

[Dreamer]

Care to bless us with an example of the genre moving away from this? Also manually implementing commands has been around since pong so no it is NOT a step backwards. AA is newer and allows for more advances tactics at the higher end of the game, and by higher end I don't mean being rank 50 and farming mobs, I mean actual encounters, (which still don't exist...) Like I said before numerous times, just saying AA is a step in the past does not make it true. At the very least try to provide an argument for your ideas.

There's a reason why offline games don't use this mechanic. It's simply boring. The only reason it is popular in MMOs is because it helps compensate for ping times. How much fun do you think the combat in Elder Scrolls would be if instead of having manual control your character just swung once per second automatically?

I wouldn't say AA is a step backwards, but it's definitely not an ideal solution. The sooner the genre moves towards more real-time combat, the better. SWTOR isn't using it, neither is GW2 (the auto-attack there is more like a toggle for any ability rather than what we're referring to here). DDO, which has one of the better combat systems in MMOs, doesn't use it even though the combat is still semi-turn-based. One of the more interesting titles coming out soon, The Secret World, doesn't use auto-attack.

The sooner this mechanic goes the way of the dodo, the better. Hence why I'm rather agitated they're rebuilding their combat system around it.