Curtana :(

[Quatre]

Did you even read my post? It's like the entire thing went over your damned head. Do you still not understand how accuracy is as immensely useful and potent a tanking stat as enmity is?

Also, why are you making the claim that WAR is a "damage dealer first and a tank second"? There is absolutely NO indication of that being even remotely true: in fact, I would go as far to say that you're flat-out wrong about this. Here is the official class description for WAR on the lodestone page:

"Warriors have the honor of possessing the highest HP of any class or job. Thriving on the enmity of his foes, there is no fiercer fighter on the field of battle."

Now, where in there do you see "damage dealer first" because I *certainly* do not. Oh, wait, it's not there. A WAR's job is to be a balance between taking damage and outputting damage, and the design intent is that accomplishing the former helps to improve the latter. Or did you miss the part where 3 of the 5 abilities unlocked by the WAR class are specifically tanking abilities?

Again, you do not appear to have a clear grasp on either tanking mechanics (have you even attempted Garuda or done any of the relic quest?) nor class design (where the hell are you getting that WAR is primarily a DD?).

Have -you- read any of my other posts? Your posts are filled with nothing but inciting elitist asshole-ism.

Feel free to check my achievements, I've done all the content in the game except for Ifrit Extreme (Have you even attempted this yet?)

After some valid arguments from some of the intelligent members of the Paladin community I can see the strength of Accuracy is much higher than I'd previously thought it. However, Nowhere did I say accuracy was a BAD thing.


Your argument is incredibly flawed and lacks to even acknowledge what the Paladin Lodestone description is.

"The paladin job sacrifices maximum HP, but this is compensated by way of greatly enhanced defense as well as the ability to cast healing magic. Valiant by nature, a paladin can shield his comrades from blows, making him the unyielding rock upon which a party’s defense is built."
Being the FIERCEST FIGHTER on the field sounds quite a bit like damage dealing. Being an Unyielding rock upon which a party's defense is built sounds quite a bit like tanking.


My entire rant is about all of the tank Itemization on Warrior, when it belongs on the -tank- class.
I didn't miss the part where Three out of Five the abilities unlocked on warrior are Tank Abilities, and it makes total sense for an OFFTANK to gain access to these, considering SE's "Vision" laid out in this thread http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...764#post449764 It's intended for the warrior to be able to "Throw the attacks back at the boss"(To deal damage) or take a few hits. Paladin is clearly the one envisioned to be the tank. Do I need to link anything else to prove this?

If you're not going to contribute anything to the conversation, or say anything remotely intelligent i'd suggest you go to the general forums to spend your days.

[Quatre]

Kind of on the same token as WAR AF getting Enmity. It's got some good pieces in there, but at the same time it's a juggling fest between trying to reduce Enmity on Key pieces and put out some good damage in the process w/o drawing hate.

But let's be honest unless it's an AoE spamfest like Garuda's Plumes people don't really use WAR for anything but tanking.

Yeah this is true. Especially since a lot of the class itemization is drawn around enmity it makes it hard for Warriors to DPS to full potential without drawing hate. Warriors are very useful for Princess and Ifrit Extreme too. When it comes to single target DPS, the way things are right now people will probably take a DRG or MNK. Although a great geared warrior can push damage also, an equally geared DRG or MNK will probably do more damage while drawing less enmity. At least in my experience.

Your other knowledge has been really insightful to be honest, so i'm totally up for hearing you out if you have a different take on things.

[SwordCoheir]

Your other knowledge has been really insightful to be honest, so i'm totally up for hearing you out if you have a different take on things.

Sure, I'm more than happy to share a few thoughts if you got a question for something.

[Alerith]

Personally, I'm not all that upset with the lack of enmity. The accuracy makes sure I'm going to land Phalanx for Spirit's Within as soon as the fight begins, so I'm happy with the accuracy.

Now, am I happy it went to WAR? Not particularly, but I'm not heartbroken it isn't on the sword. If you can get the enmity earrings and a +1 enmity wrist along with a double melded enmity belt, that's *pretty much* all you need in most cases. Your skill rotation will make the difference between holding hate and not.

[elreed]

Look, i dont have the best tank gear, i dont even have a belt with an enmity materia, and i assure you that using the proper skills of paladin you wont run out of enmity of course, even with a good gear and being warrior DD's should and must be cautious with the enmity they generate, using phalanx and spirit within, with rampart and sentinel on, gives you a lot of enmity, i use often war drum too, so at the end even burning ifrit really fast with BLM's, i had an easy time tanking it, i didnt loose ifrit at all, and i did the run several times, the party had good DD's.

I know that having enmity+ on the sword would help more, but pld already has good enmity skills, have you tried healing a party member with Holy succor?

[Ryans]

Your argument is incredibly flawed and lacks to even acknowledge what the Paladin Lodestone description is.

"The paladin job sacrifices maximum HP, but this is compensated by way of greatly enhanced defense as well as the ability to cast healing magic. Valiant by nature, a paladin can shield his comrades from blows, making him the unyielding rock upon which a party’s defense is built."
Being the FIERCEST FIGHTER on the field sounds quite a bit like damage dealing. Being an Unyielding rock upon which a party's defense is built sounds quite a bit like tanking.


My entire rant is about all of the tank Itemization on Warrior, when it belongs on the -tank- class.
I didn't miss the part where Three out of Five the abilities unlocked on warrior are Tank Abilities, and it makes total sense for an OFFTANK to gain access to these, considering SE's "Vision" laid out in this thread http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...764#post449764 It's intended for the warrior to be able to "Throw the attacks back at the boss"(To deal damage) or take a few hits. Paladin is clearly the one envisioned to be the tank. Do I need to link anything else to prove this?
.

Get off your high horse and look at the real world application of the two jobs. If something can tank each and every piece of end game content, it is a main tank. Plain and simple. I don't care if warrior had the description of "I take hits like a pussy but deal the best damage." IF it can tank effectively, its a main tank. So stop calling warrior an off tank.

Also, consider the fact that there is only one fight (Princess) where you need an off tank and I wouldn't be surprised if pug or lnc could tank the add.

To throw in my two cents about enmity on Curtana, who needs it? If you have a relic, you will probably have best-in-slot gear every where else and know how to play your job. Sure, it would be nice to have it all on a relic but it would just be overkill. If everyone in your group is playing correctly, no one should have to hold back for fear of enmity.

[indira]

pld has a enmity combo and when you miss it it hurts, acc is a nice thing to have since pld's acc sucks.

[ejiboo]

acc on curtana is one of it's juicier features. c'mon bruh!? donut u see dis? it freeze up ya ring slnts broskee! darnt ya wunt 2 c4p ya statz on teh paradin!

[Ronik]

Have -you- read any of my other posts? Your posts are filled with nothing but inciting elitist asshole-ism.

Oh, I'm sorry, did I hurt your feelings? Here's a tissue.

Feel free to check my achievements, I've done all the content in the game except for Ifrit Extreme (Have you even attempted this yet?)

Wait, I thought your argument was that I was the elitist here? The irony here is almost chuckle worthy.

It's astonishing how someone can complete content yet still not understand the most basic mechanics of the game, isn't it?

After some valid arguments from some of the intelligent members of the Paladin community I can see the strength of Accuracy is much higher than I'd previously thought it. However, Nowhere did I say accuracy was a BAD thing.

I called you out for having an idiotic argument (your claim that accuracy is a poor tanking stat) and suddenly I'm the unintelligent one? I'm gonna quote your own words here:

"Instead we got Accuracy. The tanking class. Got Accuracy." - Some Idio--- oh wait, this is you I'm quoting.

The statement here makes it very clear that you consider accuracy to be an entirely unsuitable stat for the purposes of tanking. You even separated it from the rest of your post for emphasis. Again, you clearly consider Accuracy to be a bad thing (which, again, points to your ignorance). So, no, you're contradicting yourself again in an attempt to not look stupid for saying something stupid.

Your argument is incredibly flawed and lacks to even acknowledge what the Paladin Lodestone description is.

Please specify where the hell I mentioned the Paladin's lodestone description, at all, in either of my posts? Claiming my argument is flawed does not make it so, particularly when you immediately after bring in something which I did not mention at all.

"The paladin job sacrifices maximum HP, but this is compensated by way of greatly enhanced defense as well as the ability to cast healing magic. Valiant by nature, a paladin can shield his comrades from blows, making him the unyielding rock upon which a party’s defense is built."
Being the FIERCEST FIGHTER on the field sounds quite a bit like damage dealing. Being an Unyielding rock upon which a party's defense is built sounds quite a bit like tanking.

Again, your incoherent rambling does not qualify as an argument. It does not matter what the phrase "fiercest fighter" sounds like to you. The Warrior is STATED to have the highest HP value in the game, as well as to "thrive on the enmity of it's foes". It is directly and clearly stated in the Warrior class description that the Warrior uses enmity as a tool to perform it's job, as well as boasting the highest HP (gee, I wonder what role in the game would need tons of HP and enmity?). Your pedantic interpretations are worthless here: your claim that the Warrior is a "damage dealer first, tank second" are entirely wrong, and (surprise) laughably misinformed.

My entire rant is about all of the tank Itemization on Warrior, when it belongs on the -tank- class.
I didn't miss the part where Three out of Five the abilities unlocked on warrior are Tank Abilities, and it makes total sense for an OFFTANK to gain access to these, considering SE's "Vision" laid out in this thread http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...764#post449764 It's intended for the warrior to be able to "Throw the attacks back at the boss"(To deal damage) or take a few hits. Paladin is clearly the one envisioned to be the tank. Do I need to link anything else to prove this?

If you're not going to contribute anything to the conversation, or say anything remotely intelligent i'd suggest you go to the general forums to spend your days.

First off, to reiterate (since it's easy to forget why I consider this topic a waste of space in the first place), accuracy is one of the best stats on the Paladin Relic. Period. The Paladin Relic is arguably the best itemized relic of the lot, not that this means anything to you since you clearly do not understand stats or itemization.

Second, just because you *think* the Warrior should be an "offtank" does not make it reality (Oh, are you backpedaling from claiming the Warrior is primarily a DD, now?). The Warrior has all the tools and a clear design intent for versatility when it comes to both tanking and DD (and is , at the moment, more of a Tank than a DD both by design and in practical implementation). My posts are plenty constructive and intelligent - you're just clearly lashing out at me for calling you out on your profound, laughable ignorance.

Don't worry, though. I'll avoid hurting your feelings from here on out. <3

[Quatre]

My posts are plenty constructive and intelligent

Oh, I wonder why I didn't notice?

Oh, I'm sorry, did I hurt your feelings? Here's a tissue.

It's astonishing how someone can complete content yet still not understand the most basic mechanics of the game, isn't it?

Again, your incoherent rambling does not qualify as an argument

Your pedantic interpretations are worthless here

(since it's easy to forget why I consider this topic a waste of space in the first place)

not that this means anything to you since you clearly do not understand stats or itemization.

you're just clearly lashing out at me for calling you out on your profound, laughable ignorance.

I'm going to use a little help from you now, and pull up one more quote to comment on all of those.

The irony here is almost chuckle worthy.

I called you out for having an idiotic argument (your claim that accuracy is a poor tanking stat)

Your arguments are slippery slope, and incredibly biased. Never once did I state that Accuracy is a poor tanking stat. Good luck finding that. The post that you quoted "Instead we got Accuracy. The tanking class. Got Accuracy." Shows my shock that the job who's role is exclusively to tank had Accuracy while the Warrior weapon had Enmity. This statement is in no way devaluing Accuracy. You're reaching past my argument and drawing your own conclusions in order to entertain yourself on these forums.

Please specify where the hell I mentioned the Paladin's lodestone description, at all

Did you forget you mentioned the warrior lodestone description?

Claiming my argument is flawed does not make it so, particularly when you immediately after bring in something which I did not mention at all.

Damn, this is spot on! Except my mentioning another lodestone post which states that Paladin is considered -the- "Tank" class is incredibly relevant. If you wish to bring in a source to prove your point, then I am just as justified to prove mine. It's slightly ironic here, since you claimed my argument is flawed immediately after claiming that I think Accuracy is a poor tanking stat. Which I never mentioned at all

It does not matter what the phrase "fiercest fighter" sounds like to you.

Second, just because you *think* the Warrior should be an "offtank" does not make it reality

First, it doesn't matter what it sounds like to you -either-
Secondly, Just because you *think* Warrior should be a "Maintank" does not make it reality

your claim that the Warrior is a "damage dealer first, tank second" are entirely wrong, and (surprise) laughably misinformed.

Does Warrior have several abilities oriented entirely towards dealing Damage?

Is warrior able to put out great damage numbers?

On the garuda fight, and Ifrit extreme fight, in strongholds, or any other situation where there are more than 1 monsters to attack, what is the best damage dealing class?


Now. I'm really curious. What would your post be like if we removed all of the douche baggery?

The Paladin Relic is arguably the best itemized relic of the lot. The Warrior has all the tools and a clear design intent for versatility when it comes to both tanking and DD (and is , at the moment, more of a Tank than a DD both by design and in practical implementation

Wow, you used a great many words to say very little.

I will agree that Paladin relic is among the better itemized of the relics. Especially after consulting with Sword on the specifics of how Enmity is calculated and how damage is honestly going to have a greater yield on enmity than the raw stat itself. Both are important to have while still maintaining mitigation.

You hit the nail on the head with Warrior and how it's designed. The problem is, It can tank while still being the totally strong DD. My point is, it's terribly unbalanced to have one job who's sole purpose is tanking, and for another to be able to both Tank, and deal a ton of damage. Yoshi's made strides to move away from this direction with the ability reforms that have enhanced block and Paladin overall, and slightly nerfed WAR tank damage... This just proves my point even further.

I'm not stating your wrong, I'll even retract my statement that you're unintelligent. You're not stupid, you're just being an asshole. I'm simply trying to show you the apple you've been eating is actually an orange.