Curtana :(

[SwordCoheir]

This post is I dun even know...

It's the extent of where +Enmity can be added, that doesn't deface the value of other sources of Enmity (IE: Damage/WS) in turn defacing the value of the added Enmity to begin with. Frankly unless your going for a more defensive setup you lose wayyyy too damn much potential equipping HDL.

In my case wearing a full HDL set I lose

-50 STR
-35 MND
-8 DEX
-90 Evasion

And gain

+4 VIT
+42 DEF
+115 Enmity = 11.5% Enmity increase

Knocking my stats down so much for a slight enmity/defense boost is really counterproductive considering Voke, Rampart, and Flash ARE NOT our main nor primary source of Hate generation. Even swapping out my Electrum Gorget +1 and STR rings +1 for Acc on Garuda knocked my auto attack damage about 40 or 50 points, dropping my main damage modifiers down to the 250 range would be catastrophic to my damage and hate generation, in turn making that little 11.5% boost lose face value.

IE:
Sword hits Ifrit with Gorging blade for 500.
Sword equips full HDL armor.
Sword hit's Ifrit with Gorging blade for 400.

400 * 11.5% = 46 + 400 = 446 (-54 enmity from previous setup)

The WS numbers arn't based on any actual math however so the loss would probably be far greater than that given in the example mind you. You also must consider auto-attack damage, combo modifiers (which amplifies enmity produced by damage), and Accuracy (missing = no Enmity gained yada, yada, yada) otherwise you just throw the whole point of added +Enmity out the window.

[HoolieWho]

Knocking my stats down so much for a slight enmity/defense boost is really counterproductive considering Voke, Rampart, and Flash ARE NOT our main nor primary source of Hate generation.

You forgot to mention your cures and the damage from Spirit's Within. Together with Flash, Provoke and Rampart, none of these skills are significantly affected by STR/MND/ATK as far as I know. I thought I remembered reading about MND affecting the combo bonus of either Flat Blade or Spirit's Within, but I can't find anything now.

People who don't understand stats and how they effect DPS are the ones who dismiss PLD's ability to DPS.

Most PLD are shitty at keeping combo on cooldown because they don't undestand game mechanics so they don't bother with the combo's out of fast > flat phalanx>SW. Raising STR 1STR=.8dmg 1MND=.7dmg
I can wear HDL gloves for 45enmity or 4.5% enmity on every action, or tripple STR gloves 50STR(+5acc)=>40dmg to every WS I perform.

My base fast blade on chimera is avg 18dmg in full enmity gear BUT my base dmg with the glove swap is 58DMG

5.5x total enmity on flat blade in combo:
18(5.5) = 99 + (4.5% enmity on gloves) = 103.5 total enmity on flat blade with HDL gloves
58(5.5) = 319 total enmity with STR gloves

As Tango has pointed out, the combo bonus on Flat Blade makes a strong case for STR over enmity in slots where they compete.

I see parse results for damage done to Garuda, but I don't see parse results for # of times flashed/provoked/ramparted and amount cured. And I don't see a breakdown for how much of the damage is coming from Flat Blade and Spirit's Within in combo. All of these factor into an analysis of enmity vs STR/MND/Atk.

As for ACC, yes, of course you want near cap accuracy so you can generate TP and land combos. It's after you get your ACC up that you debate other tanking stats.

[Tango]

Unfortunately you see faster gains in enmity on higher level mobs adding straight enmity bonus in bulk rather than attempting to reach stat caps, thus why HDL is better gear when running with players who zerg bosses down. What you've neglected to realize, or perhaps haven't experienced yet, is that your damage output is utter crap compared to everyone else on high level mobs. Tanks cannot rely on enmity-through-damage as they might be able to in XP parties (wouldn't know, this is before my time anyway).

This is the hart of the missunderstanding for you Grey (and I know you know your sh-- I've seen your posts all over the forums) The idea that you deal such low dmg to high lvl mobs is exactly where a DPS build can show the MOST gains in total enmity generation. The idea is that against a mob like Chimera your avg PLD is going to focus on enmity from phalanx>SW and voke/flash, some will also sprinkle in holly succor. Because fast>flat is generating under 100 total enmity(in HDL) from the combo the good PLD's don't use this.

Swap in a full DPS set and boost your overall STR/MND:
head(cobal celata) - 3str 48mnd
hands(cobalt gaunt) - 3mnd 48str
body(darksteel haub) - 7str 8acc
rings - 18str - 18mnd
wrist - 4str
legs - 20str
-----------
str - 100 = (+80dmg per ws)
mnd - 69 = (+48dmg per ws)
enmity loss 12.5%

60 second rotation:
[voke/flash/fast>flat] (x2)
phalanx>SW (x1)
holy succor (x1 -this is just guessing and avg heal in base gear is 1k so roughly 650enmity base)
--------------------------
in HDL the above generates:
568+363+15+(15(5.5)) = 1028.5 x 2 = 2057
100+400(2.5) = 1100
650
total: 3807 + 12.5% = 4283

in DPS the above generates:
568+363+143+(143(5.5)) = 1860.5 x 2 = 3721
243+400(2.5)(assuming SW is not affected by stats and i'm 99% sure its just HP based) = 1243
650
total: 5614 (no enmity bonus differential vs HDL setup)


I'm also ignoring the HP losses on the set and in many cases you can bump up the cure's per minute but I'm pretty sure the pure enmity per second EPS favors a DPS gearset, the above theory is based on a fight against chimera and is mostly from parse results but I don't have exact #'s in front of me so do your own testing but a DPS set is worth at least some consideration.

[SwordCoheir]

My pleasure, I'm hoping to get a triple meld T4 Celata and Gauntlets and some +20STR pants to put me right around the cap, however my wallet can't take the hit atm XD.

[Alerith]

Personally, I'm not all that upset with the lack of enmity. The accuracy makes sure I'm going to land Phalanx for Spirit's Within as soon as the fight begins, so I'm happy with the accuracy.

Now, am I happy it went to WAR? Not particularly, but I'm not heartbroken it isn't on the sword. If you can get the enmity earrings and a +1 enmity wrist along with a double melded enmity belt, that's *pretty much* all you need in most cases. Your skill rotation will make the difference between holding hate and not.

[elreed]

Look, i dont have the best tank gear, i dont even have a belt with an enmity materia, and i assure you that using the proper skills of paladin you wont run out of enmity of course, even with a good gear and being warrior DD's should and must be cautious with the enmity they generate, using phalanx and spirit within, with rampart and sentinel on, gives you a lot of enmity, i use often war drum too, so at the end even burning ifrit really fast with BLM's, i had an easy time tanking it, i didnt loose ifrit at all, and i did the run several times, the party had good DD's.

I know that having enmity+ on the sword would help more, but pld already has good enmity skills, have you tried healing a party member with Holy succor?

[indira]

pld has a enmity combo and when you miss it it hurts, acc is a nice thing to have since pld's acc sucks.

[ejiboo]

acc on curtana is one of it's juicier features. c'mon bruh!? donut u see dis? it freeze up ya ring slnts broskee! darnt ya wunt 2 c4p ya statz on teh paradin!

[SwordCoheir]

Just to add to your post Judge and Tango

1 Atk = .35 dmg (No Cap)
1 STR after 350 = .25 dmg
1 MND after 310 = No damage bonus.

[HoolieWho]

I believe that Spirit's Within also has an enmity bonus when used in combo. A bonus of 1.5 from what I remember, so multiply it by 2.5.

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/107...=1#post5139439

Rampart doesn't give a ton of hate by itself and you can't always hit many people with it, but Chimera fight (when people get drawn in) and Miser fight are two cases where you can take full advantage.

Cures are kind of a toss up when it comes to Enmity generation, you only get roughly .6 of the amount cured with a limited MP supply, toss in how well the WHM can keep you topped off (which Gar does pretty well) and the fact you can't over-cure anymore tend's to devalue the merit of Curing for Enmity outside of the NEED to actually cure yourself/others in oh-shit moments.

Holy Succor is designed to be cast on other members of the party. Every Wicked Wheel from Garuda is a cureportunity for the PLD. Cures are only valued at about 2/3 of damage as far as enmity goes, but curing another party member should get you at least 800+ for them and 400+ for yourself (if not topped off). That is up there with your other big enmity generating abilities.

In a long fight where you might run out of MP, consider the Gallant Surcoat. It's not for all occasions, but if you do get to do a lot of party member curing, then it's a good choice imo. Like fighting Ifrit with a MNK.