Stop the Grind-to-the-Endgame madness!

[Jinko]

I consinder "Normal play" Being able to put your foot forward and gain experience.

That could still mean anything, a small amount of xp is equal to a large one as long as you are making progress ? (I don't think so)

This is the problem some peoples idea of high levelling rate is completely different to someone else's, its all about perspective.

I don't think this games levelling curve is that bad considering we are only 1-50 and Yoshi-p already said they plan to slow it down (although that may have changed since the last players poll which was in favour of the current speed of levelling) I think all they need to do is address the power levelling in this game and it would be pretty good, there is no fun in continuous grinding.

[Asoka]

What i somewhat dont understand is that if majority of the people who played this game for awhile have couple of 50"s on standby for 2.0, and the level cap will most likely not be raised, are those majority just going breeze through it until their is nothing left to do? and hence what i hear others are saying about maybe their will be a new form of leveling in 2.0, whats the point if everyone got couple 50"s already, and then we will get hit with endgame stuff "only" in future updates from 2.0. I know others dont like ffxi reference but atleast it had a progression up to endagme, and you where more tuned to your character, and it felt rewarding in the end.

[Nazrakin]

What i somewhat dont understand is that if majority of the people who played this game for awhile have couple of 50"s on standby for 2.0, and the level cap will most likely not be raised, are those majority just going breeze through it until their is nothing left to do? and hence what i hear others are saying about maybe their will be a new form of leveling in 2.0, whats the point if everyone got couple 50"s already, and then we will get hit with endgame stuff "only" in future updates from 2.0. I know others dont like ffxi reference but atleast it had a progression up to endagme, and you where more tuned to your character, and it felt rewarding in the end.

I keep hearing people talk about FFXI's progression and low level content. I don't think there was really that much?

- Quest for your Chocobo pass - FFXIV will have a quest *and* you'll be able to breed a chocobo as a companion.
- Unlocking jobs - FFXIV already has these.
- Story missions - Again, FFXIV will have these
- AF gear Quest - FFXIV has this, as well as other job quests for spells.
- BCNMs - FFXIV will have these in the form of dungeons
- Limit Breaks - These were more a consequence of the level cap being raised, we haven't reached that point in FFXIV yet.

This is all the stuff that I can remember.

[Jynx]

That could still mean anything, a small amount of xp is equal to a large one as long as you are making progress ? (I don't think so)

Unless your going out of your way to gain slow exp it's pretty dang hard not to if your actually fighting stuff. Even outside of powerleveling you can still get some extremely fast exp.

I'm far from a hardcore player, and again I solod my thaumaturg to 50 without even doing many leves. Took me about a week and a half playing a 1-2 hours a day.

[Skies]

Unless your going out of your way to gain slow exp it's pretty dang hard not to if your actually fighting stuff. Even outside of powerleveling you can still get some extremely fast exp.

I'm far from a hardcore player, and again I solod my thaumaturg to 50 without even doing many leves. Took me about a week and a half playing a 1-2 hours a day.

Edit: Oh, jeesus, i'm BLIND, my bad. Let me re-edit everything

I call BS on that, and I fully disbelieve you. Yes, I do, absolutely. I've been doing that, i've DONE that. About as much playtime as you, look at my sig, look at my THM's level.
My experience calls you a liar.

For note, the previous post here, not relevant since you DID indeed give times, sorry if you saw it:

Italics mine.

Define to me, in REAL ACTUAL NUMBERS, what that means, please?
One's definition of how much daily (alright, perhaps weekly is better) playtime defines Hardcore can be pretty different. I want to ensure that your definition of 'easy' fits mine before I call you on your BS about levelling rapidly.

I mean, I almost quit the game in rage when I had to take my first class to 50 (it was lancer, before the major class reforms, I finished levelling it JUST in time for the class reform patch). It's been a gruelling experience to level my Archer or Thaumaturge, to the point that I'd rather pick up any of my many other games than do that. Take note those were majorly done on leves, which as you mentioned is possible.
My wild guess as to why i'm being so slow there is because, in comparison to people like you, I simply have a lot less weekly playtime, but you say you're not a 'hardcore' player, so now i'm confused.

[Jynx]

look at my THM's level.
My experience calls you a liar.

So tell me what have you been soloing? I can generally 2-3 shot most monsters that are weak to thunder and chain them by myself with relative ease, this was back before Blackmage was out so Using thaum it was pretty easy to avoid taking any damage.

Between Featherfoot and stoneskin you don't really have issues with HP unless you try to over-extend and even then MP tends to be your limiter of how fast you can kill things. Best bet is to find some non-agro monsters like Slugs that are easy to take out and wander around in. Agressive monsters are a bit of a pain as you can't chain them as easilly for fear of being eaten by the entire group. (40+ on toads gets a bit tricky).

I will admit I did do spurts of Duoing sessions but the majority of my time was Solo with a few leves thrown inbetween to get me through patches where I couldn't find level apropriate monsters weak to thunder.

But yeah...I must be a fibber....my pants are even on fire and everything.

[Hyrist]

Unless your going out of your way to gain slow exp it's pretty dang hard not to if your actually fighting stuff. Even outside of powerleveling you can still get some extremely fast exp.

I'm far from a hardcore player, and again I solod my thaumaturg to 50 without even doing many leves. Took me about a week and a half playing a 1-2 hours a day.

I'm sorry, Jynx. But I'm going to have to ask you specificly which camps were you using.

I can tell you right now, I play an average of 10 hours a week, on Archer, and those are most definatly not my experiences.

Your issues may be unique to Thamaturge, which, as they are a massive damage dealer apt at dishing large a mounts of AoE damage in great bursts, I can see that.

However, this is not relevant to my Archer, which my choices are, either sit and tank monsters and forego combos, which delays kill time. Or I kite to get my combos, which delays kill times, but is safer during Leves where I have to hunt groups.

Same thing with my Lancer, which I soloed nearly to 50, but it still took me a matter a months rather than weeks, as you are claiming.

Seeming the basis of your argument hinges on this assumption that all classes level at the speed of Thamaturge, which could be considered a class balance issue, not a leveling speed issue. I'm going to have a much tougher time respecting the full of your statements. I will, however, go back and still break your reply down into the bullet points I wish to respond to.

[Shurrikhan]

Seeming the basis of your argument hinges on this assumption that all classes level at the speed of Thamaturge, which could be considered a class balance issue, not a leveling speed issue. I'm going to have a much tougher time respecting the full of your statements. I will, however, go back and still break your reply down into the bullet points I wish to respond to.

Every Thaumaturge I've seen grinding for about the same number of hours has always leveled faster than other classes, especially before those classes get their AoE's. On top of that their spells hit harder than most abilities. Duoing Thaumaturges can be unbelievably fast -- in a 3-Fire to kill situation in a mob-dense area, you can tag up to 6 enemies with the lower damage caster going first; threat switches to second caster, and then back to third, playing ping-pong with the whole group of mobs. Many of these areas will even respawn a third to two thirds their population at once as soon as the last mob is slain. They get AoE-fest strategy of grinding from level 10 on.

If that were all my leveling experience was based on, I'd find it to have gone ridiculously fast. (If. This is not related to Jynx's opinion specifically seeing as I have no idea what other classes he has leveled.)

[Hyrist]

Every Thaumaturge I've seen grinding for about the same number of hours has always leveled faster than other classes, especially before they get their AoE's. On top of that their spells hit harder than most abilities. Duoing Thaumaturges can be unbelievably fast -- in a 3-Fire to kill situation in a mob-dense area, you can tag up to 6 enemies with the lower damage caster going first; threat switches to second caster, and then back to third, playing ping-pong with the whole group of mobs. Many of these areas will even respawn a third to two thirds their population at once as soon as the last mob is slain. They get AoE-fest strategy of grinding from level 10 on.

If that were all my leveling experience was based on, I'd find it to have gone ridiculously fast. (If. This is not related to Jynx's opinion specifically seeing as I have no idea what other classes he has leveled.)

That would then be a balance issue with Thaumaturges - which isn't uprising. I've been toting around the opinion that their AoE spread damage should get toned down a bit or have a greater expense for a while now. (Or even maybe an XP penalty if we're concerned with impact on raid performance.) It's the primary reason why grind parties and leveling is considered too fast, and if its broken down to more reasonable levels then we'll see a bit more balance.

There just does not seem to be enough magical resistance in this game. Tough mobs, or pinpoint enemies that are highly physically resitant, yeah, I can see a merit for having such a quick weakness to magic. But cannon fodder? I just feel like those should be able to reduce magical damage when they're in large groups, like how Garuda's Plumes are.

But that's just one idea and one opinion. I'm sure there are other solutions.


Elexia, your Hyperbole is showing, better tuck that in before someone actually believes you.

[Shurrikhan]

That would then be a balance issue with Thaumaturges - which isn't uprising. I've been toting around the opinion that their AoE spread damage should get toned down a bit or have a greater expense for a while now. (Or even maybe an XP penalty if we're concerned with impact on raid performance.) It's the primary reason why grind parties and leveling is considered too fast, and if its broken down to more reasonable levels then we'll see a bit more balance.

But that's just one idea and one opinion. I'm sure there are other solutions.

Well, it's a really simple solution that goes a long way. Just adding some spread-damage mechanics instead of duplicating it for all AoEs would go a long way in reducing the huge advantage of AoE attacks. Keep them strong, just not let them act like some manner of a industrial size woodchipper where mobs are brought it on conveyor belts.

That said, the next obvious connection becomes "what other purpose can AoE serve other than damage?", which then turns to the creation of more interesting mechanics, and upon seeing the large possibilities for more fun and tactical gameplay but also the work involved, SE may refuse to touch the subject at all.