Can we get an idea on what to expect from the open world in version 2? (A bit long)

[Babydoll]

I hope this post reaches out to the Devs, cause im dieing to know whats gonna be open world.

As for Rokien, I usually dont post on the forums, although i read through alot of the posts. I can see why people think you come off as a troll, but even so, Im with ya on most of these thing, cause no matter how much people want to defend all this instance stuff, I think we are all in the same thought as ya man.

We need more open world, hopefully this wont become another stand in Org and win everything. I dont want FFXI v2.0 , but i do want that exploration and mystery that FFXI had. For those who played FFXI, remember teleporting to all the crags? remember finally seeing what was inside it? remember opening an entire new area after completing the crags? All of these things could have taken up to a year to realise depending on how you played and explored that game. I want that

I agree with ya. If SE is hellbent on taking things that worked from wow, they should do the same from their own previous game. They don't have to take every aspect, but they should take few things that worked really well and incorporate it. OP link is a very, very good idea of what SE should do...or any MMO company for that matter.

One thing FFXI did right without a doubt is exploration and open world. People complain that they don't want HNM because of the drama, well...content finder ninja lotters have worse drama imo. I've already experienced it with Dark Light gear...and this is without the content finder. Drama will be anywhere people go..just have to learn how to deal with it.

At least the HNM drama/end game drama on XI you'll know who did what and be able to avoid them. But with this content finder..once someone goes back to their own world..who cares?

I much rather deal with HNM/NM camping and "open world" drama then instanced drama. I'll deal with both if I have to idc, but open world is so much more appealing to me.

[Hyrist]

Funny I only ever camped HNM's that were in my window of play time. Guess I had enough patience to wait for the spawn windows to clear up for my playtime.

It wasn't a perfect system but it kept some rare items rare, and gave them value in the economy. You can't have items "Worth" something if everyone can just go grab it and get a gold star for breathing.

No, but you should get rewarded for what you've done.

For example, if your LS succeded in Breaking the horns off of a Ram HNM, you should get those horns in your loot pool at the moment of breaking, and it shouldn't go to the shell that picked up the fight after you wiped.

They might get that pair of MNK weapons you have a rare chance of getting for defeating the HNM, but your shell got rewarded for what you accomplished.

Also, there could also be a 'Bounty' system in which your Company gains points by going out on bounties for HNMs. Defeating specific HNMs unlocks some of that HNM's native loot pool to be purchased at high cost with bounty points. This way, going out and killing a different HNM even though you have no personal interest in that, awards you points towards a goal you may personally have from a different HNM - even if collecting the points may take a lot longer.

Then you can keep some portion, primarily a consumable item or perk, of the mobs loot pool to be exclusive to them, like a Meteria or a food component. So you have several reasons to hunt down HNMs. Not only are you going for a chance for a quick drop at those U/U items, those that want different items get progress towards them (even if that progress is dirt slow to keep it rare or simply gathering points to purchase an alternative version that may be say a slight lesser to the rare drop.) Meeting conditions in the fight will get you loot as you meet them, so that failed runs aren't completely pointless. And you get the rare consumables that can make the HNM worthwhile to farm even if the power creep surpasses the value of the permanent items that drops. (which could then be used say for Bounty points or GC seals or whatever.)

There are many ways you can impose 'worth' on an item or a monster, and it does not have to just be a super-rare best in slot. And while I agree people have to work for what they achieve, they should be rewarded for the work they have done.

[Babydoll]

Funny I only ever camped HNM's that were in my window of play time. Guess I had enough patience to wait for the spawn windows to clear up for my playtime.

It wasn't a perfect system but it kept some rare items rare, and gave them value in the economy. You can't have items "Worth" something if everyone can just go grab it and get a gold star for breathing.

Same here lol. Its funny..FFXI was the first game where end game stuff to me actually felt like a true accomplishment. Not "Oh hay guiz I beat the random number generator, therefore I am leet" When someone had an e.body or a dalm back in the day..you knew they more then likely really truly earned it. When I see darklight in this game I just think ok? They got lucky and beat the rng..cool. Glad for them..but not that impressed lol.

With those kind of HNM (Where the HQ would spawn like once a week) I am kinda 50/50. I liked it because it was fun camping sometimes, each time was a different experience. Instances can be very rewarding too...just this RNG syatem thingy they have going isn't working at all.

[Hyrist]

With those kind of HNM (Where the HQ would spawn like once a week) I am kinda 50/50. I liked it because it was fun camping sometimes, each time was a different experience. Instances can be very rewarding too...just this RNG syatem thingy they have going isn't working at all.

Except that the HNM system in FFXI was just an RNG system too.

You had a RNG determine the time of pop within the window, the RNG determined the likelyhood of a HQ pop, and the RNG determined what appeared in the loot pool.

It's a double standard. If anything, the random number generation system really could be used MORE to spice up the placement of monsters and objectives within dungeon runs to make them feel more lively and dynamic. I woulden't mind them pulling a WoW and occasionally being confronted by a HQ version of a boss that had a far better drop rate on my desired loot in trade for a much harder fight.

But let's be real here. Everything is pretty much RNG based when it comes to loot drops - which is actually a problem. I like the token idea from Garuda, that you get something for achieving something, and that can be put towards your long term goal.

But if I look at someone who has their own name on a Triple Meld item in 2.0. They earned it. I want to have that same feeling for dungeon drops as well. But earning it really shouldn't rely just on getting lucky with drops - having a way to work for it too. Will mean you earned it one way or another.

[Babydoll]

Except that the HNM system in FFXI was just an RNG system too.

You had a RNG determine the time of pop within the window, the RNG determined the likelyhood of a HQ pop, and the RNG determined what appeared in the loot pool.

It's a double standard. If anything, the random number generation system really could be used MORE to spice up the placement of monsters and objectives within dungeon runs to make them feel more lively and dynamic. I woulden't mind them pulling a WoW and occasionally being confronted by a HQ version of a boss that had a far better drop rate on my desired loot in trade for a much harder fight.

But let's be real here. Everything is pretty much RNG based when it comes to loot drops - which is actually a problem. I like the token idea from Garuda, that you get something for achieving something, and that can be put towards your long term goal.

But if I look at someone who has their own name on a Triple Meld item in 2.0. They earned it. I want to have that same feeling for dungeon drops as well. But earning it really shouldn't rely just on getting lucky with drops - having a way to work for it too. Will mean you earned it one way or another.

It had a fixed time window to spawn, that was 100%. It was within 3 hours. It is a RNG system yes but not as much as we have now in XIV >_< I agree though it is a problem that needs to be fixed.

For the HNM...it was somewhat of a fixed thing. The king would have to spawn before 7 days are up, and the HNM would have to spawn within 3 hours each day. At least that much is 100% Hehe the only thing I would say could be considered RNG was the ABJ dropping (Had a 1/3 chance to get the piece you wanted)...but even then no matter what something always dropped whenever we claimed a king. It made me feel like I actually did something instead of 400+ speed runs with 0 gear. But then not claiming sucked and meant I wasted 3 hours...so yeah both have their downsides that is for sure >_<

I guess with FFXI the fact is was rng didn't really occur to me because each time we got a king someone got something, or I am dumb, etc lol. But in XIV whenever we do speed runs or ifrit/garuda etc we end up repeating them so much that RNG becomes so much more apparent...in fact I didn't even know what RNG was (I thought people were talking about Ranger job LOL sad) until I played this game >.>;

[Hyrist]

For the HNM...it was somewhat of a fixed thing. The king would have to spawn before 7 days are up, and the HNM would have to spawn within 3 hours each day. At least that much is 100%

But that's like saying you can enter harder dungeon once a week or that you can enter a primal battle after 15 minute cooldown.

There's no difference there - the attempt is set in stone, the loot is based off of a terribly contrived RNG. I get the concept that rare gear should be physically rare, but instead of making it based on luck and leave the players to impose their own loot priority system, give them a secondary system that encourages players to work together to get what they want both individually and collectively.

The old systems weren't good. They're just nostalgic now that we're past them.

That's not to say throw the baby out with the bath water,as someone suggested. But the baby is 10 years old now and that's past time for it to be potty trained.

[Jynx]

No, but you should get rewarded for what you've done.

HNM dropped tons of usefull items aside from the coveted ultra rare ones. The only reason you don't remember them is because so many dropped they became like skittles allover the place with no real value.

You can't impose worth by letting everyone have it every single time. If you make a Ram NM that always drops a horn then that horn is going to become useless in a short period of time.

[Hyrist]

You can't impose worth by letting everyone have it every single time. If you make a Ram NM that always drops a horn then that horn is going to become useless in a short period of time.

It would always drop horn, IF you break the horns, which could be a challenge in and of itself to achieve.

And if the recipe for whether the horn is used for requires multiple, or is used in multiple formula, then your demand is sufficient to keep its worth.

This also is in complete neglect that if it's used in a Meldeable/Convertible piece of equipment, demand for it is going to be HIGH, because it's likely to get blown up a lot.

You mention that HNMs drop a bunch of useful gear. But the problem with that is, like, in the case say, Dragon Heart - that's dropped from all dragon types and several BCNMs. The horns themselves don't have to be available on every Ram type HNM, and even if they are, you don't have to give a 100% drop rate. I just stated that the horns would drop in inventory when the horns were broken, rather than when the boss is defeated - you get the reward for the objectives you've completed.

You can argue value as much as you'd like, but the truth of the matter is, this isn't FFXI, the entire structure of this game, especially gear and item wise, is different. Crafted gear isn't a permanent commodity like it is in other MMOs. So you can't make value judgments just off of its drop rate - which is why I mentioned things like meteria unique to the NM. (Ex. Meteria of Thunderous Tread: % chance to stun on hit, etc.) Commensurable loot unique to that NM, rather than have it on every single monster of that type, like in the example of Dragon Hearts.

And that's not touching on the argument of the fact that these experiences should be part of the value itself - but that's a different can of worms.

[Babydoll]

Hyrist did you play XI? If you did I want to ask you...if you saw someone with a D.Ring (came from kings) what did you think? VS what do you think when you see someone with an Ifrit weapon? If not then nvm hehe

[Jynx]

The only thing keeping the value of armor in check in this game is the fact that much of it gets consumed via materia breaks. Otherwise even the highest level of crafted gear would be worthless...hell for the most part it still is until you get some good melds the actual creation of (Most) items does not net you money.

Market saturation would happen alot faster than you think. This isn't FFXI but we can all take lessons from what items did/didn't become worthless in the span of two weeks after it was released.