~Poll~ Longer fights <Do you want it?>

[Davorok]

From the (old) FFXIV 2.0 page:

Enemy leader and group systems to be removed before version 2.0.
Enemy "call for help" system released in patch 1.19, causing nearby enemies to link when called.
Release of a system to calculate enemy strength based on party size and member levels. Enemy "call for
help" system to be adjusted in patch 1.20 so only appropriate enemy types link.

I am not sure if the bolded sections have been implemented already or scrapped till 2.0.

[Hyrist]

By my understanding, both have already been released.

The first bolded is the mention of 'preset parties' in which you tick off an enemy leader, the entire group links to you and gang rapes you.

The second is connected to the text after the bold as well. Effectively - the number of the enemies that respond to the 'call for help' is in direct relation to the number of allies you have by your size and your collective strength. A full party of 8 is going to have to deal with a lot more straight links than someone going solo, who will likely just have to face individual aggro without links.

[Hyrist]

he not talking about making it harder but anyfight should last longer than a weapon skill combo. short fights like we have neglets gameplay mechanics by not using anything but trying to attack a mob before it dies. there no point for to even buff up because of that and also makes it where having a future debuffing class useless.

This is a matter of attacking weaker monsters, not a matter about the monsters themselves being too weak.

A part attacking a pack maybe one or two levels above them are going to rip said monsters apart. Especially jobs like Warrior and Black Mage who are designed to deal large amounts of AoE damage against monsters of equivilant or lower level then they are.

Attacking monsters significantly higher level typically yeilds a far more difficult fight. However, such an experience is not met just finding monsters on the beaten paths in the field - you have to go to dungeons for that, unless you want to intentionally go seeking dangerous camps, which most people simply don't want to do because they'd rather the safe XP.

Again, you're asking for a practice dummy, not a real fight. A real fight involves danger, danger is something you don't want in your XP grind. And if you're just grinding away XP, then you might as well just sit back and enjoy the AoE fest.

IF you want something more in depth than that, then you shouldn't be asking for harder field monsters (There are plenty, they are dangerous.) You should be asking for content specifically designed to help level groups together, such as group leves.

[Resheph]

every single enemy wouldn't be that cool, but I actually miss the longer fights that XI had. There was more time to play around with things. What I would do if I had Yoshi P's job as a compromise would be mini bosses for levequests. Maybe if you pick a certain difficulty setting, the leve would have an optional boss spawn at the end that would drop some kinda chest. This boss would be harder to defeat than a normal mob, but soloable and not as difficult as an NM or dungeon boss.

[Hyrist]

I was thinking leve quests as it's own catagories. Tailored specifically for parties to level and train together with.

Players on these boards have been making complaints that the leveling speed is too fast and it's leaving players unprepared for parties and raids and whatnot.

Well, what if part of that process involved a party leveling system that mimicked certain raid behaviors like objectives or mini-boss fights, or coordinated enemy groups? But done so on smaller scale. This way, the speed of leveling is moot as you're already practicing in groups instead of grinding mobs solo. You don't have to complain about the AoE fest as the fights are tailored to require group dynamics instead of BLM spamming. And you wind up with a stronger bond between players as desired by many on these boards.

But I'd rather the group leve system be developed specifically for groups, so that it gives players those options, rather than simply coat-tailing off exact leve objectives.

[Soukyuu]

This depends on where they want to go with debuffs. If they want to go back to garbage system we had in FFXI then we're going to have that circus all over again. You won't be able to avoid the fact that if the masses figure out how to make due without the debuff class, you're back at square one.

And the garbage FFXI system was what? Please don't assume everyone played FFXI. It even says so in my sig.

Why are you limiting yourself to the XP party thing? I prefer to look at game balance from something that can be controlled like dungeon mobs, bosses, world bosses and even stuff like hamlet defense. None of that dies in 10 seconds..

I am not limiting myself to leveling, I am trying to pull more attention to it just as you are trying to pull more attention to the endgame component. There are people who enjoy the leveling process. It's much more than just a grind, it lets you meet new people easily unlike endgame content where everyone sticks to their LS for the most part.

MMOs are supposed to have social interaction as one of their main aspects, but from what I see lately the trend seems to be shifting to clustering into closed groups or even just play solo.

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The first assumes that longer fights, by default, equate to more enjoyable combat. In regards to the context of the argument, which is farming field monsters for EXP, this isn't true - as evidenced by the behavior in FFXI. The long fight process was long ago abandoned by the faster killed monsters and the relative safety of low HP mobs. Longer, safer fights actual makes fighting fatigue quickier because there's no engagement. Just grind away at mob 1 until it does, then move onto mob 2.

You are jumping to extremes here. I don't want to have a mob take 1-5 minutes to take down. All I want is to be actually able to use a full combo on a mob and be able to learn how to play my class before going into endgame, not only have barely enough TP to execute my combo starter skill I got 30 levels before all over again because mobs drop in 5-6 seconds.

"Endgame" LSes require you to be experienced if you want to join them. But how are you supposed to gain this experience if leveling can be done by executing the same WS/spell all the time, requiring no actual skill at all?

The second issue assumes 2 majorly flawed things. 1. That the debuffer class deals no comparative damage in fast killing situations. (Which would be a false implication considering that the enemies would still be just about as weak to them as they would be to any other class.)

No one has so far been able to tell me why you should cast a debuff on a target that is going to die as soon as you finish casting in most cases anyway. 2-3 THM starting to cast fire will finish either shortly after the debuffer or at the same time, not letting the debuff make it's work in case it's a DoT, or won't matter much if it's a def-down/atk-down - the monster will die anyway.

And the second major flaw is assuming that the debuffer class would need to leach anything to get to 50, in this game's solo-friendly environment. We've already JUST ended the discussion about alarmists worried that leveling is going to be too fast, and now you're going to inverse that statement because it aids a different arguent?

Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean by that. Leeching won't make leveling faster, it will slow the group down overall. I am not talking about PL here.

Solo is much more slower than party play, it's just there to be able to say "well, you could just level solo".

In either case, these issues aren't overlooked, they're previously addressed. In fact, you arguments suffer from the uniting flaw that it completely neglects solo. You want monsters that are harder to for groups in the normal field, you do so at the direct loss of solo play, and at the direct neglect of enemy strongholds - which are developed specifically for group play.

There is no loss of solo play in making enemies last longer. As I already said, you are exaggerating the increase of the length of an encounter.

Enemy strongholds being group content? I lost count of how many WARs I saw soloing Natalan without major problems.

If I go do a level 30 leave at level 30 with a bunch of my friend the same level - I cannot by reason complain at the ease the leve is completed. If you're seeking longer fights, seek harder monsters.

Optimal exp at the moment is killing monsters +5 levels of your group. And those die in 3-5 seconds under concentrated fire. Mobs around your level die within 2-3 seconds.

[Skies]

Soukyuu, how long is a 'longer' in your opinion?
You keep saying that it takes 5 seconds to kill a monster, and that 1 minute is an exxageration. So what is your pefect time?
I say that because I've done levelling parties mostly in the 1~30 range and monsters certainly last a lot longer than 5 seconds.
That said, we usually do only have one or two thaumaturges.

[Soukyuu]

Soukyuu, how long is a 'longer' in your opinion?

Something around 30 seconds. That way you can build enough TP to start a combo, finish it and be able to switch to the next one.

The 5-6 seconds is after the first THM finishes casting, first damage marking the start of the encounter for me. I haven't actually timed it, but that's how long it feels. It's not specifically about a certain time span for me, but more about how many skills you can execute before the mob drops dead.

[Skies]

Hrm, I see.
I must have a very unusual gameplay experience. I remember very often on my Lancer tossing out various WSes, most specifically Leg Sweep.
Only time I barely managed to do a Weaponskill was when my Gladiator was levelling in a group with my friends's Thaumaturge/Archer. They kept using ST nukes on me

[Squiggles]

does this guy make ridiculous petitions daily..?