~Poll~ Longer fights <Do you want it?>

[Soukyuu]

There is a lot of (deliberate?) misunderstanding going on here.

- Longer fights don't necessarily equal slower leveling, all SE has to do is raise exp per mob while making said mob tougher.
- People saying debuff classes would be useful in raids miss the fact that to be able to participate in raids those playing the class would have to leech themselves from 1-50, since debuffs are useless in normal partying as it is now

When I party, most of the time I only have a chance to execute one - two WS or cast a spell before the whole mob drops dead. This is way too easy.

Castrum Novum is actually better balanced, so I am usually able to execute a 3WS combo before a target dies. It is partially due to their higher def and partially to their numbers. And it's much more fun this way, it's been a while since I enjoyed fighting multiple mobs at once.

@people flooding this (and other) thread(s) with OT drama: you do realize that NOT REPLYING will make his threads sink to the bottom of the forums quite quickly, so if you think an idea he suggest is stupid, do just that. Why do you feel obliged to post in his threads to collectively say how stupid it is? Is it really worth your time or are you just bored? If you insist on continuing to gang up on a single guy, by all means feel free continuing to be a douche.

I really am glad the forum community doesn't represent the actual ingame community.

[Isaveron]

I really am glad the forum community doesn't represent the actual ingame community.

Same. Most of the suggestions on this forum are bad, and at times I can't tell if the person is being serious or not.

[Duelle]

- People saying debuff classes would be useful in raids miss the fact that to be able to participate in raids those playing the class would have to leech themselves from 1-50, since debuffs are useless in normal partying as it is now

Not really. It just means their methods of dealing damage would be less direct. It's what differentiates a straight out nuker like BLM from a guy that stacks dots on the mob and has abilities with damage modifiers based on those dots to do similar overall damage.

Assuming we get Necromancer, NEC's starting attacks in a rotation could be three debuffs that deal damage over time while having secondary effects. Say, Curse (DoT + lowers damage resistance), Exhaust (DoT + lowers accuracy and evasion), and Bane (DoT + lowers elemental resistances). Then they can toss in "nukes" that scale in potential damage depending on how many debuffs they have up on the mob. It wouldn't be doing the exact same damage as a BLM in terms of damage per spell, but it would perform equally between DoT damage and "nuke" damage.

As far as other enfeebles, this is why you can't have a class entirely devoted to debuffing (and why I suggest spreading debuffs between the classes and jobs). Buff/debuff has to be built in to a greater whole, because they are tertiary aspects of gameplay and should never be the raison d'etre of a job/class.

[Soukyuu]

Not really. It just means their methods of dealing damage would be less direct. It's what differentiates a straight out nuker like BLM from a guy that stacks dots on the mob and has abilities with damage modifiers based on those dots to do similar overall damage.

This is assuming debuff design doesn't change. As far as I understood their plans, the current debuffs being additions to normal spells is "temporary" until they introduce a real debuff class. Even if said class would have some damage skills, they would have to balance them to deal less damage to offset the future use of debuffs in raids.

The problem with leveling would then be, why bother casting a debuff that takes 1% of mob's hp if the mob will die in less than 10 seconds anyway? Why not take a class that can push that to 7 seconds instead of the debuffer that makes way too little difference?

What you are saying would be true if we had longer battle times - then debuffs would be able to make some real difference. The longer the fight, the higher the impact of debuffs.

[Duelle]

This is assuming debuff design doesn't change.

Actually, I'm assuming debuff design changes. Just more in the direction of bosses being balanced around the expectation of the raid having stuff like +spell damage taken, Defense Down, Attack Down, and so on. Some can even double as part of a damage rotation (like with my Necromancer suggestion), giving the raid a benefit while adding to the job's gameplay.

As far as I understood their plans, the current debuffs being additions to normal spells is "temporary" until they introduce a real debuff class. Even if said class would have some damage skills, they would have to balance them to deal less damage to offset the future use of debuffs in raids.

This depends on where they want to go with debuffs. If they want to go back to garbage system we had in FFXI then we're going to have that circus all over again. You won't be able to avoid the fact that if the masses figure out how to make due without the debuff class, you're back at square one.

The problem with leveling would then be, why bother casting a debuff that takes 1% of mob's hp if the mob will die in less than 10 seconds anyway? Why not take a class that can push that to 7 seconds instead of the debuffer that makes way too little difference?

Why are you limiting yourself to the XP party thing? I prefer to look at game balance from something that can be controlled like dungeon mobs, bosses, world bosses and even stuff like hamlet defense. None of that dies in 10 seconds.

This is really where the balancing part comes into play. to ensure the numbers are the same while making utility nice to have, especially in 24-mans.

[FallenRaine]

When i say longer fights, I don't mean 15mins athaya.....

Anything longer than 2 seconds really >.> lol

pretty much this i should be able to ws each fight lol

[indira]

we need actual fights. right now its mindless

[Hyrist]

There is a lot of (deliberate?) misunderstanding going on here.

- Longer fights don't necessarily equal slower leveling, all SE has to do is raise exp per mob while making said mob tougher.
- People saying debuff classes would be useful in raids miss the fact that to be able to participate in raids those playing the class would have to leech themselves from 1-50, since debuffs are useless in normal partying as it is now

Two flaws in this argument.

The first assumes that longer fights, by default, equate to more enjoyable combat. In regards to the context of the argument, which is farming field monsters for EXP, this isn't true - as evidenced by the behavior in FFXI. The long fight process was long ago abandoned by the faster killed monsters and the relative safety of low HP mobs. Longer, safer fights actual makes fighting fatigue quickier because there's no engagement. Just grind away at mob 1 until it does, then move onto mob 2.

Castra Novum was successful because it alternated the kinds of monsters between the more difficult, and the fodder kind. There were still enemies that died or were severely injured in the first wave of a BLM group nuking - but what made the fight more intriguing were the ones that survived, and made life hell on the BLM for going all out without paying attention to their targets.

The second issue assumes 2 majorly flawed things. 1. That the debuffer class deals no comparative damage in fast killing situations. (Which would be a false implication considering that the enemies would still be just about as weak to them as they would be to any other class.) And the second major flaw is assuming that the debuffer class would need to leach anything to get to 50, in this game's solo-friendly environment. We've already JUST ended the discussion about alarmists worried that leveling is going to be too fast, and now you're going to inverse that statement because it aids a different arguent? Sorry, can't have cake and eat it too. Either leveling is fast and it supports classes like these, or it's not and you have this porblem. All indications point to the former.

In either case, these issues aren't overlooked, they're previously addressed. In fact, you arguments suffer from the uniting flaw that it completely neglects solo. You want monsters that are harder to for groups in the normal field, you do so at the direct loss of solo play, and at the direct neglect of enemy strongholds - which are developed specifically for group play.

If I go do a level 30 leave at level 30 with a bunch of my friend the same level - I cannot by reason complain at the ease the leve is completed. If you're seeking longer fights, seek harder monsters. They are out there, and they are avoided for the same reasons why people often solo their classes - they'd rather not have to depend on other for their day to day character training.

Again, there are other ways to accommodate this desire for more dynamic combat, some of which I've already listed in this thread. Do not touch field monsters.

[indira]

In either case, these issues aren't overlooked, they're previously addressed. In fact, you arguments suffer from the uniting flaw that it completely neglects solo. You want monsters that are harder to for groups in the normal field, you do so at the direct loss of solo play, and at the direct neglect of enemy strongholds - which are developed specifically for group play.

he not talking about making it harder but anyfight should last longer than a weapon skill combo. short fights like we have neglets gameplay mechanics by not using anything but trying to attack a mob before it dies. there no point for to even buff up because of that and also makes it where having a future debuffing class useless.

[Malix]

Same. Most of the suggestions on this forum are bad, and at times I can't tell if the person is being serious or not.

I just assume that they arent. It makes me feel better about humanity