2.0: New Disciple of Magic or Spell Reform?

[DeadRiser]

Shepard isn't a DoW/M class it would most likely be the DoL class that would help out leathworkers and crafts using animal parts that can only be "gathered" through fighting atm lol. As to why that DoL wasn't implemented from Day 1 nobody knows lol.

Yeah, I'm tired of killing sheep ;-;. Maybe if they add that, they can reduce the drop rate on leathers from fighting which SHOULD help with the bots running rampart.

[VoltaAsura]

Even before the revamp... I really didn't feel any debuffs/enfeebles were worth casting. They had a negligible impact. Slow was the only spell that I recall that "seemed" to work. My experience with binds was that they really lasted barely a second.

I do agree, in order for a debuff class to work, it needs to be useful and be impactful throughout an entire combat scenario.

Thaumaturge was my main the first year I played and I thoroughly enjoyed the job UP until the spell reforms. My main job as THM was to debuff and enfeeble, and I never really had any issues with it, or with them landing. I thoroughly enjoyed being a support mage, and with how the game was back then, you needed at least 1 THM in your pt to debuff/enfeeble (it really helped in darkhold). Not sure how anyone else feels, but I totally miss that about the old spells/actions. I liked the idea of combos, but they totally destroyed THM by making it an elemental class. I had always wondered, if they make another job from THM, that job isnt gonna differ much from either BLM or THM because it's still gonna be casting thunder/fire combos >.>

I really want Arcanist, and if we get it, I hope its what THM used to be.

[Jinrya-Geki]

Thaumaturge was my main the first year I played and I thoroughly enjoyed the job UP until the spell reforms. My main job as THM was to debuff and enfeeble, and I never really had any issues with it, or with them landing. I thoroughly enjoyed being a support mage, and with how the game was back then, you needed at least 1 THM in your pt to debuff/enfeeble (it really helped in darkhold). Not sure how anyone else feels, but I totally miss that about the old spells/actions. I liked the idea of combos, but they totally destroyed THM by making it an elemental class. I had always wondered, if they make another job from THM, that job isnt gonna differ much from either BLM or THM because it's still gonna be casting thunder/fire combos >.>

I really want Arcanist, and if we get it, I hope its what THM used to be.

Unless they change the current system of enfeebling, the class won't be high in demand. Why take a job that won't effect bosses too much, or trash mobs that die from a spam fest of steel cyclone, drg combos,and blm with the fire line, the only time making fire spells good for anything (still not a good thing).

[Shurrikhan]

Jinrya, could you give me the short on each spell's situational usage for BLM? I have yet to level a BLM to 50, since I stopped playing casters after Conjurer's lost the elemental wheel and Thaumaturges lost the majority of their playstyle connection to lore (imo).

From what I've heard so far, it sounds like each spell type covers one purpose (Fire chain - AoE, Blizzard chain - slowing, Thunder - damage), and since damage is the only thing that doesn't run out of use, 80+% of casts are for the Thunder Chain. Is that approximately right?

_________________________
(To be replaced once I've heard what the playstyle is actually like)
If that's the case, the easiest increase to enjoyable variability would be to create either combo branching, rather than mere combo chaining, which seems helpful for just about any class, or to have a sort of secondary tier to combo-ing, a bit like turning the intentions of a series of spells. This would probably be done through another spell, though it should be one that's neither so commonly used as to be annoying, nor as unused as I hear many BLM auxiliary spells are. A pair of spells though, might be more appropriate.

For example, if you spammed Thunder for a minute straight, you could hit this spell and cast Blizzard, which would cause the target to take a chance at being stunned (slowing / debilitation being the basic 'intention' of Blizzard), based on damage taken compared to its health per second over the next variable (additional Blizzard casts increasing time?) duration.

The issue with that though would be that something has to keep track of the "spamming Thunder for a minute straight", which would likely require either another spell, or a passive Stance / Style type spectrum, (between Damage, Dispersal, and Debilitation so to speak).

Otherwise, one could play on that concept further by using a second spell (Element Soul / Resonance) enabling a larger, more powerful cast of a certain element available to them with the more effect that spell type has had while the spell was active. So, cast Resonance, stack a bunch of Fire-type spells while wiping out small mobs, maybe spreading debuffs along the way, perhaps even including spreading them onto the larger mobs, neglecting direct debuff defenses, though with a lower base chance. Then, use the first spell (Will of the Wheel / Intent), start stacking Frost-types on the boss, building up a Debilitation-type intent. [*This would probably also require that Frost spells could actually do more than merely induce Heavy, and that enfeebling effects in general were greater, with a larger number of total effects possible, with multiple tiers in source and niche.] Once the next wave of small adds spawn I use Fire-type spells, releasing my Resonance charge on Firaga, with the intention still on Debilitation, taking all the stacked debuffs from the boss, along with some frost magic and dispersing it onto the mobs.

*I'd still need to figure out how this would differ from Fire-stacking, Frost burst, etc.

**Honestly, just because there are exactly 3 primary spell types in use, it seems best that there would be three spells added, which should cover and/or replace most functions of the present auxiliary spells while actually being used (and fun to use at that). However, other than the niche (Intent above), and basic elemental type (Resonance above), I can't think of anything atm. Maybe something to do with style, between Power, Speed, and Defense? Idk. I haven't thought that far ahead in this overblown reply. I just feel like it should be 3 and 3. Kind of like a spell wheel with 3 points of view on what separates these 3 particular elements, and the 3 elements themselves in each. Just instinct though. Nothing solidified yet.
________________________
*On the increased enfeebling ability of Frost-type spells mentioned before, I'd really like to be able to do something slow a boss's swing speed to keep a tank alive. But it should function in a different way than true "enfeebling debuffs", i.e. the difference between freezing someone's arm for a moment before the ice breaks and them being slowed exactly 30% for exactly 1 minute, the latter befitting a Thaumaturge far more than a Black Mage.

**I suppose the idea of Flame-magic being usable for dispersal would follow the same idea. Likewise, Thunder-magic perhaps being able to cause slight defense losses of its own, in an aggregate, non-absolute way (not as if by a rule), as mentioned above.

[Punainen]

I hope the next pet class is Puppetmaster. I effing love that job.

[Jinrya-Geki]

Jinrya, could you give me the short on each spell's situational usage for BLM? I have yet to level a BLM to 50, since I stopped playing casters after Conjurer's lost the elemental wheel and Thaumaturges lost the majority of their playstyle connection to lore (imo).

From what I've heard so far, it sounds like each spell type covers one purpose (Fire chain - AoE, Blizzard chain - slowing, Thunder - damage), and since damage is the only thing that doesn't run out of use, 80+% of casts are for the Thunder Chain. Is that approximately right?

_________________________
(To be replaced once I've heard what the playstyle is actually like)
If that's the case, the easiest increase to enjoyable variability would be to create either combo branching, rather than mere combo chaining, which seems helpful for just about any class, or to have a sort of secondary tier to combo-ing, a bit like turning the intentions of a series of spells. This would probably be done through another spell, though it should be one that's neither so commonly used as to be annoying, nor as unused as I hear many BLM auxiliary spells are. A pair of spells though, might be more appropriate.

For example, if you spammed Thunder for a minute straight, you could hit this spell and cast Blizzard, which would cause the target to take a chance at being stunned (slowing / debilitation being the basic 'intention' of Blizzard), based on damage taken compared to its health per second over the next variable (additional Blizzard casts increasing time?) duration.

The issue with that though would be that something has to keep track of the "spamming Thunder for a minute straight", which would likely require either another spell, or a passive Stance / Style type spectrum, (between Damage, Dispersal, and Debilitation so to speak).

Otherwise, one could play on that concept further by using a second spell (Element Soul / Resonance) enabling a larger, more powerful cast of a certain element available to them with the more effect that spell type has had while the spell was active. So, cast Resonance, stack a bunch of Fire-type spells while wiping out small mobs, maybe spreading debuffs along the way, perhaps even including spreading them onto the larger mobs, neglecting direct debuff defenses, though with a lower base chance. Then, use the first spell (Will of the Wheel / Intent), start stacking Frost-types on the boss, building up a Debilitation-type intent. [*This would probably also require that Frost spells could actually do more than merely induce Heavy, and that enfeebling effects in general were greater, with a larger number of total effects possible, with multiple tiers in source and niche.] Once the next wave of small adds spawn I use Fire-type spells, releasing my Resonance charge on Firaga, with the intention still on Debilitation, taking all the stacked debuffs from the boss, along with some frost magic and dispersing it onto the mobs.

*I'd still need to figure out how this would differ from Fire-stacking, Frost burst, etc.

**Honestly, just because there are exactly 3 primary spell types in use, it seems best that there would be three spells added, which should cover and/or replace most functions of the present auxiliary spells while actually being used (and fun to use at that). However, other than the niche (Intent above), and basic elemental type (Resonance above), I can't think of anything atm. Maybe something to do with style, between Power, Speed, and Defense? Idk. I haven't thought that far ahead in this overblown reply. I just feel like it should be 3 and 3. Kind of like a spell wheel with 3 points of view on what separates these 3 particular elements, and the 3 elements themselves in each. Just instinct though. Nothing solidified yet.
________________________
*On the increased enfeebling ability of Frost-type spells mentioned before, I'd really like to be able to do something slow a boss's swing speed to keep a tank alive. But it should function in a different way than true "enfeebling debuffs", i.e. the difference between freezing someone's arm for a moment before the ice breaks and them being slowed exactly 30% for exactly 1 minute, the latter befitting a Thaumaturge far more than a Black Mage.

**I suppose the idea of Flame-magic being usable for dispersal would follow the same idea. Likewise, Thunder-magic perhaps being able to cause slight defense losses of its own, in an aggregate, non-absolute way (not as if by a rule), as mentioned above.

I will try. Fire spells, they are only good for trash mobs. On bosses, they do absolutely crap damage. My best example for this would be chimera. Fire against chimera is terrible. I boost my damage with intelligence and magic attack potency, but against the boss itself it's bad damage. Against the adds like the ants of princess or chimera ant adds it kills them pretty fast. I don't like that. The boss is always more important than the adds.

Blizzard, against even Garuda, who is supposed to be susceptible to ice because she is a wind, doesn't matter. The damage is terrible. Against spamming steel cyclone warriors or Dragoons, blizzard is useless, the mobs will be set free by bind or sleepga. Making the blizzard line useless.

Flare- is god damn useless because of the fact it's self-aoe.

Convert, I hardly use.

Sleepga, unless it's darkhold, I never use = worthless.

Like I said in another post. If more than half the spells are useless, then how is that successful as a class/job.

P.S Edit: Drunk at the moment, give me a few hours to collect my thoughts.

[Ruisu]

Its not good cause theres only 2 mages in the game it needs more there 5 melees

Melees have always outnumbered mages in FF. Have you played any of the games in the series? Yoshida has shown interest in something similar to a Calculator in Final Fantasy Tactics, along with Arcanist. Maybe the two will be something similar.

[Jinrya-Geki]

Melees have always outnumbered mages in FF. Have you played any of the games in the series? Yoshida has shown interest in something similar to a Calculator in Final Fantasy Tactics, along with Arcanist. Maybe the two will be something similar.

This maybe true, that he has shown interest. But it could also be to show interest to make other calm down. If that were true, he showed genuine interest the class would have been released now. It's already been shown in DATs and what the developers have said that the class should have been released from the start. So why hasn't it?

Because, they don't know what to do with it. It would be alot easier to say, than make up some excuse of we are waiting for than 2.0.

(Oh my god Jinrya has caught on to our plan. /ban him)

[Shurrikhan]

Honestly, I think whatever classes come out should have a good pairing in the other groups, something that contributes in the non-combat sector. For example, Puppeteer --> Scavenger / Artificer --> Engineer / Mechanist; Shepard --> Beastmaster. Tetra Cards / Bestiary --> Summoner. Whatever it is should have additional components introduced at the same time that make it feel that much fuller.

I'd rather see another Caster class than Melee for obvious reasons. However, I really think only 3 Caster classes will every be necessary. If class gameplay and jobs were to actually play to their lore, then anything soul related should come through Thaumaturge, creation / elemental based should come from Conjurer, and anything else related to the knowledge or manipulation of magic itself or values therein (i.e. Calculator, Scholar, etc) should come through Arcanist.

That said, I find the exact job requirements to be foolishly rigid, and would rather simply be able to able to bring up whatever classes I think best support a job, the job then being like an extra class to learn additional tricks from with time, perhaps at cost of fewer outside spells equipable. In short, shouldn't belong to an exact class 30 / 15 combination.

On the note of classes spanning out to jobs, I've always hoped that Gladiator would be simplified to Swordsman, so that it could potentially include Fencer and Samurai, in addition to Gladiator (the survivalist) and Paladin (the group tank). That's not to say I like the idea of classes being named after their weapons; far from it. I just think Swordsman still has enough of a interesting vibe behind it, and it's the one most locked out by its current class name, including from two of my favorite class premises. (Honestly, I don't want to see Samurai and Fencer only as they were before.)

[KoujiGeki]

Melees have always outnumbered mages in FF. Have you played any of the games in the series? Yoshida has shown interest in something similar to a Calculator in Final Fantasy Tactics, along with Arcanist. Maybe the two will be something similar.

yes i have, and yes you are right mages are usually out numbered. But still the fact is that there is only 2 mage jobs. where others have had necromancer, time mage, red mage, blue mage, etc as opposed to just blm and white mage.