Yoshida-san: Please Give Us a BETTER System for Relics and Future 2.0 Challenges!

[Enfarious]

Thats naive to think people would do Stuff for free. ( Of course some do, but most dont ).

I was in an LS that worked toward one at a time, we did not get payed for each run, we did get choice of all drops but currency.

Run was 1.000.000 7 Years ago and if i would have sell Currency to get the Fee back i was in need to sell 200 ( since some were 5k ), which was a decent amount you could have gotten out of 1 run. So the whole run would have been a waste since i got nothing out of it.

I remember 500k, but 7 years ago was before I started running dyna, or maybe I'm remember the cost of something else?

I dont think you ever worked on a Relic, since that Math-Example is an naive assessment of the situation like mentioned above and said before. Total Cost if you buy all currency was 120.000.000, no matter if you could have sell some of the Currency to pay the Entry-Fee, or just bought Currency without sponsoring. In the end you would have to do more runs to get the Currency back you sold in the early Progress, to the the total amount you need. So you could have save the Time and not sell any of them.. but no matter how you turn it, it either has costs more time or more gil. And again.. it is really naive to think that everyone was able to have a Linkshell which will run Dynamis all the Time just for 1 guy. I knew Linkshells which did it once a week, once a month, 2 times a week but currency were free lot and so on... and so on.

I said post cost ~100 currency a run, yes if you were free lotting everything then well I'm sorry it would have taken a long time and/or a ton of gil. Post abyssea and post dyna reforms, as I mentioned somewhere else, people solo all but the final stage NMs, and of course you can go once a day for free. It's that system that's in place now that I believe would be a far better choice, but even old brutal years long dyna, which believe it or not I did go to, we did give sponsor currency for the glass, and we did work on 1 persons at a time, we did not go with more than a single alliance either. The shell I was in before that did the whole even split of the glass cost, and split currency after the run so everyone got equal amounts then buy/sell/trade amongst yourselves. I never did dyna with a dyna shell that only went once a month. Even social shells that ran Dyna went at least on saturdays/sundays every week. Usually not to build relics so much as to go get clears and lot drops on armor and what have you. If some of my numbers are off, or you were getting 5k/currency, or w/e try to keep in mind that not every server was the same pricing, most of the currency I sold would go from 8k~15k a piece, calling that on avg. 10k and 50/run seemed about right to me, again I don't remember 1mil, I seem to remember 500k.
Should a player still possess an unused Timeless Hourglass, the Goblin NPCs will buy them back from you for a full refund of the purchase price (500,000 gil)(from http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Categoryynamis) So I know that I'm not losing my mind there.

But here again back to the Topic

The Current Progress in FFXIV CAN obviously be done in 1 Week and not everyone got their Seals before the Patch. I mentioned examples where people started along with the Patch.

I didn't say everyone did, we can keep arguing what work out to be the same point in the end or not. Dyna had measurable progression that rewarded actual time spent and skill. Rather than luck.

[Dragon]

I remember 500k, but 7 years ago was before I started running dyna, or maybe I'm remember the cost of something else?

It may have changed around/after abyssea (August 2010), but until then it did cost a million gil to get into.

I didn't say everyone did, we can keep arguing what work out to be the same point in the end or not. Dyna had measurable progression that rewarded actual time spent and skill. Rather than luck.

Yup, exactly. Call me crazy, but I also usually had fun with Dynamis anyways.

[Nero]

I didn't say everyone did, we can keep arguing what work out to be the same point in the end or not. Dyna had measurable progression that rewarded actual time spent and skill. Rather than luck.

Of course we could.. the Maindifference between Dynamis and Hamlet is that you had tons of Mobs which could drop the Currency compared to Hamlet where you get 1 Chest. ( i guess i read that somewhere above ). Maybe thats why it looks way worse than Dyna was... but is it really? Dyna was twice a week.. Hamlet you can spam over and over again.

Personally i dont mind spaming Hamlet, spaming CC/AV, or breaking even more Class-Weapons, but thats just me.

Should a player still possess an unused Timeless Hourglass, the Goblin NPCs will buy them back from you for a full refund of the purchase price (500,000 gil)(from http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Categoryynamis) So I know that I'm not losing my mind there.

It was change not long ago, like the Dragon said. It was changed somewhere at Abyssea Release Date.. im not sure exactly about the Date tho.

[Enfarious]

Of course we could.. the Maindifference between Dynamis and Hamlet is that you had tons of Mobs which could drop the Currency compared to Hamlet where you get 1 Chest. ( i guess i read that somewhere above ). Maybe thats why it looks way worse than Dyna was... but is it really? Dyna was twice a week.. Hamlet you can spam over and over again.

So tons of mobs in a single ~3 hour span where you know you'll walk away with something(typically 150+ currency and some armor/weapons), or 3 hours to get 1 chance per instance to get 1 drop per group. Yeah Dyna was 1x every 3 days I don't want to see reentries that high, but the system as it is imo of course simply sucks and I would prefer Dyna ~07 to it.

Personally i dont mind spaming Hamlet, spaming CC/AV, or breaking even more Class-Weapons, but thats just me.

It was change not long ago, like the Dragon said. It was changed somewhere at Abyssea Release Date.. im not sure exactly about the Date tho.

It was a year and change ago, I quit shortly after, that it became free and a 24hour reentry, not to mention soloable for currency farming. I said that already, it was 500k for a fairly long time, at least a few years as I can't remember when it was 1mil and started playing in mid04, which is why they allowed the refund when it became free.

[Nero]

It was a year and change ago, I quit shortly after, that it became free and a 24hour reentry, not to mention soloable for currency farming. I said that already, it was 500k for a fairly long time, at least a few years as I can't remember when it was 1mil and started playing in mid04, which is why they allowed the refund when it became free.

http://www.playonline.com/pcd/topics...52/detail.html

There you go.. it was 1 Mil until August of 2008. Just wanted to clarify that, since i also wasnt sure but was sure that it was 1 mil for a long Time.

[Dragon]

http://www.playonline.com/pcd/topics...52/detail.html

There you go.. it was 1 Mil until August of 2008. Just wanted to clarify that, since i also wasnt sure but was sure that it was 1 mil for a long Time.

I thought it was 1 mill until Abyssea... wow, I can't believe I forgot. .-.

[Enfarious]

http://www.playonline.com/pcd/topics...52/detail.html

There you go.. it was 1 Mil until August(Edit:April) of 2008. Just wanted to clarify that, since i also wasnt sure but was sure that it was 1 mil for a long Time.

MMk it was 500k for 3 years before Abyssea, so everyone was right. I just overestimated by maybe a ~year, it was 500k for awhile long enough for me to have erased the memories of 1mil.

Wasn't the point still that it was attainable and in measurable amounts as opposed to a luck based system w/ what @most 8 chests in hamlet that drop items that can't be passed/traded/sold, a luck based synth, a luck based double meld, a luck based mat drop same 8 chests that drop but can't be passed traded or sold.

Yes dyna had RNG, it also placed 500(no I've never counted) mobs for you to attempt that RNG on and each could drop 0~3 singles and 0~1 100(likely fuck no but it did happen). So in the end you could pretty safely say that, assuming you were in a shell that did build weapons for each person in turn and sold only what was needed for lamps. You could say that each run you gained, 50/run @1mil/lamp, and 100/run @500k/lamp. So the math I put out there earlier, aside from my not remembering a 1mil point is right for the 2~3 years prior to dyna reforms. ~100/run x 100 runs with no currency bought. It's 50 weeks, < 1 year. I can also say I don't know anyone that did a straight farm for them until after the reform that made entry free and everyday for, if you knew how, ~300/day in lowman and even solo.

[Dragon]

MMk it was 500k for 3 years before Abyssea, so everyone was right. I just overestimated by maybe a ~year, it was 500k for awhile long enough for me to have erased the memories of 1mil.

Nah, I was clearly wrong. ^.^;;

Wasn't the point still that it was attainable and in measurable amounts as opposed to a luck based system w/ what @most 8 chests in hamlet that drop items that can't be passed/traded/sold, a luck based synth, a luck based double meld, a luck based mat drop same 8 chests that drop but can't be passed traded or sold.

Yes dyna had RNG, it also placed 500(no I've never counted) mobs for you to attempt that RNG on and each could drop 0~3 singles and 0~1 100(likely fuck no but it did happen). So in the end you could pretty safely say that, assuming you were in a shell that did build weapons for each person in turn and sold only what was needed for lamps. You could say that each run you gained, 50/run @1mil/lamp, and 100/run @500k/lamp. So the math I put out there earlier, aside from my not remembering a 1mil point is right for the 2~3 years prior to dyna reforms. ~100/run x 100 runs with no currency bought. It's 50 weeks, < 1 year. I can also say I don't know anyone that did a straight farm for them until after the reform that made entry free and everyday for, if you knew how, ~300/day in lowman and even solo.

Yup, exactly!

[TheVedis]

MMk it was 500k for 3 years before Abyssea, so everyone was right. I just overestimated by maybe a ~year, it was 500k for awhile long enough for me to have erased the memories of 1mil.

Wasn't the point still that it was attainable and in measurable amounts as opposed to a luck based system w/ what @most 8 chests in hamlet that drop items that can't be passed/traded/sold, a luck based synth, a luck based double meld, a luck based mat drop same 8 chests that drop but can't be passed traded or sold.

Yes dyna had RNG, it also placed 500(no I've never counted) mobs for you to attempt that RNG on and each could drop 0~3 singles and 0~1 100(likely fuck no but it did happen). So in the end you could pretty safely say that, assuming you were in a shell that did build weapons for each person in turn and sold only what was needed for lamps. You could say that each run you gained, 50/run @1mil/lamp, and 100/run @500k/lamp. So the math I put out there earlier, aside from my not remembering a 1mil point is right for the 2~3 years prior to dyna reforms. ~100/run x 100 runs with no currency bought. It's 50 weeks, < 1 year. I can also say I don't know anyone that did a straight farm for them until after the reform that made entry free and everyday for, if you knew how, ~300/day in lowman and even solo.

but essentialy, if you want to use dynamis as an example, you really do have to use the "back then" stats of it and not the "now" version of it because the now version of it is the way it is because everything there is so irrelevant

so 1mil per entry is still what we look at
and doing it every 3 days is still what we have to look at unfortunately if you even want to come close to comparing it

every aspect of it from that point of view makes it take alot longer in almost every single aspect to complete then the hamlet end of things does now, hell even every other aspect of it will still probly take tons longer in comparison to the whole process now.

the fact that people who are grinding it a ton are at such a late stage in the quest says alot since its only been a week, that alone says that that it really isnt that bad for people who truely work towards it.

even with rng, doing it more will eventualy yield you results, if rng was such a bad factor, those groups doing it together that were so determined to get it done asap would still be working at it because they whould be getting 0 drops cuz "rng is so bad" like some people claim

granted, rng IS bad on the low end of the scale for LOW POINT RUNS, but in higher point runs, with an orginized group, rng isnt a factor at all in the hamlet end of things.

and even with melding, yes you can get really bad luck, but that same bad luck can be had with a 90% chance to meld too, so again, it isnt the section people should worry about.

at that point its going to come down to the drop rate in av/cc, which only a few people are commenting on, the same people who went out of their way to make sure theyd get their asap.....once more people get there we will get more results on how good or bad the rates can be(for now all we know is they are bad form the 1 or 2 people on it who actualy post here)


but overall, up to that point, people are MAJORLY overreacting to this seriously

[Dzian]

but essentialy, if you want to use dynamis as an example, you really do have to use the "back then" stats of it and not the "now" version of it because the now version of it is the way it is because everything there is so irrelevant

so 1mil per entry is still what we look at
and doing it every 3 days is still what we have to look at unfortunately if you even want to come close to comparing it

every aspect of it from that point of view makes it take alot longer in almost every single aspect to complete then the hamlet end of things does now, hell even every other aspect of it will still probly take tons longer in comparison to the whole process now.

the fact that people who are grinding it a ton are at such a late stage in the quest says alot since its only been a week, that alone says that that it really isnt that bad for people who truely work towards it.

even with rng, doing it more will eventualy yield you results, if rng was such a bad factor, those groups doing it together that were so determined to get it done asap would still be working at it because they whould be getting 0 drops cuz "rng is so bad" like some people claim

granted, rng IS bad on the low end of the scale for LOW POINT RUNS, but in higher point runs, with an orginized group, rng isnt a factor at all in the hamlet end of things.

and even with melding, yes you can get really bad luck, but that same bad luck can be had with a 90% chance to meld too, so again, it isnt the section people should worry about.

at that point its going to come down to the drop rate in av/cc, which only a few people are commenting on, the same people who went out of their way to make sure theyd get their asap.....once more people get there we will get more results on how good or bad the rates can be(for now all we know is they are bad form the 1 or 2 people on it who actualy post here)


but overall, up to that point, people are MAJORLY overreacting to this seriously

while i don't deny that people are making progress it doesn't change the fact that it's still pure luck. with zero fairness at all. yes you can double meld a weapon but if it takes 1 guy 1 attempt and another guy 10 its unfair. if it takes 1 guy 50 hamlets to get sealss and another guy 500 its unfair.

the system needs to done in a fair methodology where people can see a level of progress that is equal to everyone else. not a system where you can grind the crap out of it and have some guy come along and get his stuff in a fraction of your time.

seeing as everyone relates to xi relic system. the system as is would in xi essentially be the goblin guy telling one guy hey you need 10 100 pieces to upgrade your amano. then telling the next guy he needs 80 for the same upgrade. both can still progress but its far from fair.

no matter how much you sugar coat the current system its luck luck luck every step of the way. doesn't stop people making progress but i can guarantee that everyones put in a different amount of work and effort to get tot he same stage and it shouldnt be that way. every person on stage 5 should have done the exact same work and effort as every other person to get to stage 5 and the same for stage 10 etc

2 things people are asking for. progress and a fair system.