Yoshida-san: Please Give Us a BETTER System for Relics and Future 2.0 Challenges!

[Enfarious]

I can't see any implementation that would allow for relic weapons to be rare that wouldn't lead to just as much complaining. If it's something rare, based on a low chance, then people complain about RNG. If it requires grinding some kind of points, an amount that would encourage few to have the item, then everyone would complain it's too grindy. If it requires you beat some nearly impossible boss, then people would complain its too hard/overtuned.

Your right people will say it's long/boring/slow/grindy but they won't say it's unfair. The long/boring/slow/grindy discourages those that want more instant gratification, right now anyone that doesn't feel lucky enough or have the gil to toss at the slot machine is pushed away. It's got nothing to do with the time or grind.

I don't think I'm the only person that plays less than enough to do AV/CC/Hamlet 10 times a day but would also be more than happy to do them 3 times a day for some guarantee at progress even if it's gonna take me til 3 days before 2.0 to get it done.

Obviously this also plays into what's done in 2.0 and to create still more content that's simply luck of the draw is going to drive people away. I suspect that this thread alone confirms that, and there's at least 20 other "WTF is with the drop rate BS" threads that are filled with people that almost all agree it's busted. This is the one topic that nearly everyone that actively posts on these forums doesn't devolve into children attacking each others ideas, that's gotta tell you something.

I humbly disagree. I think the 'uproar' really should be about having to repeat any small 15-30 minute content 50 times. A more enjoyable experience, in my opinion, would be to repeat 150-300 minute content 5 times.

I think this is the route planend for Crystal Tower?

This I believe is the answer, though the 300 minute(5 hr) is a little long. Nothing over 3hrs inside, it's been my experience that people tend to start to drift off, or maybe that was just in Dyna/Empy farming/FFXI in general.

That would make it not casual friendly and high inaccessible for most players.

Some things shouldn't be highly accessible to most players, but nothing should be locked away because a person doesn't play 24/7.

Casual players can't live without all the content in a game being accessible to them?

Shitty players shouldn't be able to access everything because they're on alot and good players shouldn't be barred from said content because they don't play enough. Time spent online shouldn't be a deciding factor, within reason, say 2~3hrs should be enough time to go in and do anything once. Though what we ended up with was a little obnoxious.

True, but is it a requirement that all content be accessible to casual and dedicated players? And if so, is it to be at the cost of enjoyment to the dedicated player (as it is now with doing the same dungeon 100 time)?

Also, per the player poll, it would not be inaccessible for most players. A large chunk of players do play 2+ hours per day (with many doing 4+ hours).

It is not unreasonable for them to say: Okey, Thursday night, I can use content manager and dedicate 4 hours tonight to finishing crystal tower.

Even if the average day is less than 2 hrs, you've nearly everyone that can give 1 day a week where they could run, that's how I did Nyzul, didn't have the time to do 4 tags during the week but I'd be damned if i wasn't going on Saturdays.

These relics can be obtained if you are casual and hardcore sure it might take longer but that's why you are casual... They aren't gonna make 2 seperate relic quests for casuals/not and it's really the EASIEST mmo to get a relic in. If you are on for a hour. Depending on your group you could do mulitple AV/CC/Hamlet, could even spiritbond to get your materia... Why do casuals always complain when the game is designed to be able to get good gear on casual/hardcore. Just cause it takes you month(s) longer doesn't mean to complain ; ;. If you have a issue become hardcore :P That's all I am saying about the casual/hardcore comments...

Also I am bored maintence is boring xD

But that's the problem, the hardcore(aka lotta time) could go a month to get it while a casual(aka less time) could get lucky and be done in a week. Whether your someone that plays alot or a little the time playing for the same item should be the same, generally speaking. RL time yeah might take you 2 months but me 8 cause I play 1/4 of the amount that you do. It shouldn't be a maybe though.

I'll also mention that I don't know what this casual/hardcore thing is really. At the end of the day there's people logged in 80 hours a week(actively) that are garbage, others that only play 20 that are pimp. Back in the day the hardcore were people that dedicated time to being good, not just spent alot of time playing. Let's not drift to a system where it's all about time spent in world, or do, I can leave myself logged in while I'm away if the req's for a ??? gear become time logged in.

Don't restrict content to people that can play 6hrs a day everyday, . That's broken. 2~3 hour content with a reasonable delay between entries so it can be consistently scheduled for those that only have 1~3 days of >2 hrs to play. Not broken. Spammable content that takes 20 mins and has shit drop rates, fun?

Do make content a nightmare for people that don't put in time to be decent at their job(s). I don't have time to master them all but I'll be damned if I'm not among the best at 1~3 and with that being the case shouldn't I be allowed to do everything.

[Dragon]

Shitty players shouldn't be able to access everything because they're on alot and good players shouldn't be barred from said content because they don't play enough. Time spent online shouldn't be a deciding factor, within reason, say 2~3hrs should be enough time to go in and do anything once. Though what we ended up with was a little obnoxious.

Well you should've read my previous posts in this thread - I don't really like the current relic system and the current RNG system (which more than anything does support the casual base, since all you need is a bit of luck and you're done with it - no long-term effort whatsoever), and I'm not a casual player by far. (Though that doesn't mean I'm not going to participate in it; for the moment I'm just unsure whether I'll stick around beyond 2.0 and bothering with it would just be a huge waste of time should I decide to leave after 2.0.)

For the record, Dynamis was only 3hrs long and anyone that took more than 30 mins to get ready for it should've been booted as it only took a terrible linkshell longer than 30 mins to get ready for Dynamis.

My point though was that if casual players can get their cake, why can't hardcore players get their own cake? Casual players are getting everything they want, but somehow it's totally evil to just give a little something to the hardcore playerbase? (Which again, I'm not referring to the relic system currently in FFXIV, but something along the lines of Dynamis.)

[Enfarious]

Well you should've read my previous posts in this thread - I don't really like the current relic system and the current RNG system (which more than anything does support the casual base, since all you need is a bit of luck and you're done with it - no long-term effort whatsoever), and I'm not a casual player by far. (Though that doesn't mean I'm not going to participate in it; for the moment I'm just unsure whether I'll stick around beyond 2.0 and bothering with it would just be a huge waste of time should I decide to leave after 2.0.)

For the record, Dynamis was only 3hrs long and anyone that took more than 30 mins to get ready for it should've been booted as it only took a terrible linkshell longer than 30 mins to get ready for Dynamis.

My point though was that if casual players can get their cake, why can't hardcore players get their own cake? Casual players are getting everything they want, but somehow it's totally evil to just give a little something to the hardcore playerbase? (Which again, I'm not referring to the relic system currently in FFXIV, but something along the lines of Dynamis.)

You and I, and many many others have been saying the same thing, in different wrappers.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post725564

I didn't say Dyna was more than 3 hours, the 300 mins. was about something suggested prior to there about 180~300 min. content. I agree if someone isn't ready and otw in relatively close to the scheduled start time fuck em. That's the point of a schedule, be prompt you knew it was coming. Of course in this if your 8th is late your a bit fucked, not the best system, better now with 4~8 for all dungeons, but w/e. The idea of a shell that took an hour to get ready was again a matter of illustration, though from time to time shit happened that's what the hourglass mule was there for.

I also won't label myself as hardcore or casual, I don't believe time is the real decider in that, and when I was younger it wasn't the time you put in, it was how good you were and whether you were always trying to get better. If my time spent learning/researching and trying to always improve my skill isn't sufficient because I don't actually play 60+ hours a week then w/e, I read/post here and such while I'm on breaks at work and/or between classes when I've nothing more important going on, yet my playtime would be listed by many as casual. That's really a whole different discussion though.

[Dragon]

You and I, and many many others have been saying the same thing, in different wrappers.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post725564

No problem, I know you're against it. It's just you came off like as if I supported it. ^.^

I didn't say Dyna was more than 3 hours, the 300 mins. was about something suggested prior to there about 180~300 min. content.

Oh I understand, but I know Shayla and you gotta take what she says with a grain of salt (she's also just a kid, too). All she wants is content and people to do that content with.

[Enfarious]

No problem, I know you're against it. It's just you came off like as if I supported it. ^.^



Oh I understand, but I know Shayla and you gotta take what she says with a grain of salt (she's also just a kid, too). All she wants is content and people to do that content with.

I just want content that doesn't deter people by it's very nature(in this case RNG), what we have now leads me to begging/buying people to go with me. They should want to join these things just like even those that weren't building relics/mythics still wanted to go to dyna/nyzul.

I think that most of us really are after the same things. Sorry if I made it sound otherwise.

[Velhart]

I just want content that doesn't deter people by it's very nature(in this case RNG), what we have now leads me to begging/buying people to go with me. They should want to join these things just like even those that weren't building relics/mythics still wanted to go to dyna/nyzul.

I think that most of us really are after the same things. Sorry if I made it sound otherwise.

Just my opinion, can't speak for everyone, but RNG is a bigger deterrence from a game than grinding all the time for tokens.

[Dragon]

I just want content that doesn't deter people by it's very nature(in this case RNG), what we have now leads me to begging/buying people to go with me. They should want to join these things just like even those that weren't building relics/mythics still wanted to go to dyna/nyzul.

I think that most of us really are after the same things. Sorry if I made it sound otherwise.

I can agree to a point, as I just think more content in general would be nice, but I just don't like the hypocrisy going on, that "all content is equal, just some more than others." Ergo, people advocating for a particular content on the idea of having more choices/options, but won't support something because they may necessarily not be able to access it.

IMO, it'd be nice to have a bit of everything including long dungeons that take hours to complete, and hey for what it's worth, they could add a progress saver of sorts like Nyzul Isle had for those without the time to sit around all day.