Yoshida-san: Please Give Us a BETTER System for Relics and Future 2.0 Challenges!

[Dzian]

Gonna have to call bullshit on his mythril/salt claims unless you can screen it or he's baby jesus when it comes to luck.

How can you screen it?
Sure he could screen shot his inventory that shows he has them but it's impossible to screenshot the number of runs it took him to get.

Thats just the way luck works. I once went 4 axes in 4 moogle runs sounds unbelievable. I dont have a screeny but I do have this which shows that I have owned multiple axes at one time. though the purpose of that image was just to annoy a friend who has run almost as many mogs as I have and he still hasnt got a single axe...

That's just the way luck is. which ultimately is the whole point of this thread....

[Madruk]

Point being considering the drop rate, it's extremely doubtful. I'd be also curious what the next step of the quest is since that's as far as we know.

[Dzian]

Extremely doubtfull for me to get 4 axes back to back. Or people to get 2/3 weapons back to back. Still happens though.

I've hq'd 2 items back to back with a 1% chance before. the probability of that is 0.01% still happens.
yet i can get 80% on twinthreads and fail to hq 5 times straight. probability of that is 0.032%

Luck. it's a pain in the ass

[SniperRifle]

Someone has finished the Miser's Mythril and the Alumina Salt stages of the Relic Reborn quest? Wow, impressive! Would love to hear what we will have to do next.

[Enfarious]

True that... well my whole Point is that People are allready at "Step 8" of that Questline after Patch beeing out 1 Week. That makes it really "fast" imo. Of course we dont know how much more Step's we have to do with upcoming Patches, but for now i dont see any Problems with the Progress. May some people dont like it in the Forum ( 3% Poll ), but i dont think "Relics", "Legendary Weapons" or w/e you want to call it, should be obtainable by anyone. It should be a long Process for those who want to put the Time into it.

Keep in mind that prior to the patch people had already been farming the seals from hamlet, so you have to add that time back in. Had the money to throw at the double meld, that's not time for anyone with the gil to burn it's just a matter of throwing money at the slot machine til it pays out. The only thing that actually takes people a similar amount of time/attempts is seal farming for the 25k as there's systems in place for those that are not solely random.

On the harvesting points, what they spit out is randomly generated and while you can shift the chances in your favor, not unlike a slot machine that you pay more into and get to win on all 3 rows, and even diagonals. It's still random. Not a horridly low rate random but random none the less, so basically what you get isn't relavant to the argument. You may average some number/hr but that is not what others will get. Not random means that you walk up and choose what exactly you will be harvesting that attempt.

As always never asking for shorter/easier just for equal time in == equal results out.

[Enfarious]

People bitched about how hard Crafting is.
People bitched about how hard SP-Progress is.
People bitched about how this Game is not Casual.
People bitched about how hard Garuda is ( still is? ).
People bitched about this and that and everything.. do i have to keep going?

Like i said.. there are always people which dont like a certain way, personally i think the current way is to fast.

FFXI? I have no clue how it is working now. But when i worked on my Relic ( which was like 7 Years ago ), it was also based on a lot of luck. The Currency you needed have to Drop first, and 100's didnt drop very often which you needed at least 12 of to get 3rd Stage. You needed Gil to sponsor a Run and actually a Good LS which were able to beat certain Areas for specific Items you need. ( Most regular LS wouldnt go a different way just to get 1 Items for 1 Person ). I know that since it took a while to get the LS going for Attestation Stuff. At that Point a Relic was about 120.000.000 Mil in total. You got some of the Currency back in the End... but yeah.. it took a lot of Gil and a lot of people and a lot of Time ( Years ) back in the day.

so you are saying you would take a "Rich Boy System", over a "Get Lucky System"?

Needed a decent group(free), needed 500k/run(sell 50 currency, free), needed 100 peices(0.1% drop rate, turn in 100 1 pieces to make 1 at the goblin, free), purchase NO currency @150(on avg in a good shell) a run-50 for the cost of the run for 10000 for a full relic==10000/100 100 runs @1run/3days == 300 days total time needed and 0 gil, consider that most shells did 2/week it was still less than a year. It was not just for the rich. It was for anyone willing to put in the time, who had the dedication and had a group willing to put in the time.

I personally think going that long again would be a mistake, many of us don't want to see a year of 1/3day content to get one persons weapon. On the flip side of that coin, most of us don't want a system where the amount of time and energy put in is arbitrarily decided by the RNG.

The point here is to try to make the system treat everyone equally, which Dyna did(it wasn't nice but was equal, well a couple of the final stages were RNG brutality but done while farming currency that's almost irrelevant). Here between the non-passable drops, and !>10%(from what I've read/heard/seen most are lower by far) drop rates that randomly drop to someone who may not even need that item now. This system is brutal to some and cake for others.

Dyna in it's current state you can solo a weapon in 3~4 months only needing help for the last couple stages to defeat the NMs and such, and that can be done w/ 6 easy. Or at least that's where it was when I quit, but not many cared because you could make an Empy in a few weeks. Only PLDs still bothered of the people that I knew.

[Enfarious]

I can't see any implementation that would allow for relic weapons to be rare that wouldn't lead to just as much complaining. If it's something rare, based on a low chance, then people complain about RNG. If it requires grinding some kind of points, an amount that would encourage few to have the item, then everyone would complain it's too grindy. If it requires you beat some nearly impossible boss, then people would complain its too hard/overtuned.

Your right people will say it's long/boring/slow/grindy but they won't say it's unfair. The long/boring/slow/grindy discourages those that want more instant gratification, right now anyone that doesn't feel lucky enough or have the gil to toss at the slot machine is pushed away. It's got nothing to do with the time or grind.

I don't think I'm the only person that plays less than enough to do AV/CC/Hamlet 10 times a day but would also be more than happy to do them 3 times a day for some guarantee at progress even if it's gonna take me til 3 days before 2.0 to get it done.

Obviously this also plays into what's done in 2.0 and to create still more content that's simply luck of the draw is going to drive people away. I suspect that this thread alone confirms that, and there's at least 20 other "WTF is with the drop rate BS" threads that are filled with people that almost all agree it's busted. This is the one topic that nearly everyone that actively posts on these forums doesn't devolve into children attacking each others ideas, that's gotta tell you something.

I humbly disagree. I think the 'uproar' really should be about having to repeat any small 15-30 minute content 50 times. A more enjoyable experience, in my opinion, would be to repeat 150-300 minute content 5 times.

I think this is the route planend for Crystal Tower?

This I believe is the answer, though the 300 minute(5 hr) is a little long. Nothing over 3hrs inside, it's been my experience that people tend to start to drift off, or maybe that was just in Dyna/Empy farming/FFXI in general.

That would make it not casual friendly and high inaccessible for most players.

Some things shouldn't be highly accessible to most players, but nothing should be locked away because a person doesn't play 24/7.

Casual players can't live without all the content in a game being accessible to them?

Shitty players shouldn't be able to access everything because they're on alot and good players shouldn't be barred from said content because they don't play enough. Time spent online shouldn't be a deciding factor, within reason, say 2~3hrs should be enough time to go in and do anything once. Though what we ended up with was a little obnoxious.

True, but is it a requirement that all content be accessible to casual and dedicated players? And if so, is it to be at the cost of enjoyment to the dedicated player (as it is now with doing the same dungeon 100 time)?

Also, per the player poll, it would not be inaccessible for most players. A large chunk of players do play 2+ hours per day (with many doing 4+ hours).

It is not unreasonable for them to say: Okey, Thursday night, I can use content manager and dedicate 4 hours tonight to finishing crystal tower.

Even if the average day is less than 2 hrs, you've nearly everyone that can give 1 day a week where they could run, that's how I did Nyzul, didn't have the time to do 4 tags during the week but I'd be damned if i wasn't going on Saturdays.

These relics can be obtained if you are casual and hardcore sure it might take longer but that's why you are casual... They aren't gonna make 2 seperate relic quests for casuals/not and it's really the EASIEST mmo to get a relic in. If you are on for a hour. Depending on your group you could do mulitple AV/CC/Hamlet, could even spiritbond to get your materia... Why do casuals always complain when the game is designed to be able to get good gear on casual/hardcore. Just cause it takes you month(s) longer doesn't mean to complain ; ;. If you have a issue become hardcore :P That's all I am saying about the casual/hardcore comments...

Also I am bored maintence is boring xD

But that's the problem, the hardcore(aka lotta time) could go a month to get it while a casual(aka less time) could get lucky and be done in a week. Whether your someone that plays alot or a little the time playing for the same item should be the same, generally speaking. RL time yeah might take you 2 months but me 8 cause I play 1/4 of the amount that you do. It shouldn't be a maybe though.

I'll also mention that I don't know what this casual/hardcore thing is really. At the end of the day there's people logged in 80 hours a week(actively) that are garbage, others that only play 20 that are pimp. Back in the day the hardcore were people that dedicated time to being good, not just spent alot of time playing. Let's not drift to a system where it's all about time spent in world, or do, I can leave myself logged in while I'm away if the req's for a ??? gear become time logged in.

Don't restrict content to people that can play 6hrs a day everyday, . That's broken. 2~3 hour content with a reasonable delay between entries so it can be consistently scheduled for those that only have 1~3 days of >2 hrs to play. Not broken. Spammable content that takes 20 mins and has shit drop rates, fun?

Do make content a nightmare for people that don't put in time to be decent at their job(s). I don't have time to master them all but I'll be damned if I'm not among the best at 1~3 and with that being the case shouldn't I be allowed to do everything.

[TheVedis]

Point being considering the drop rate, it's extremely doubtful. I'd be also curious what the next step of the quest is since that's as far as we know.

Marduk, Im hoping to be on that step shortly too so i can confirm the rates

i personaly think "some" people post BS drop rates myself (claiming 0/56 i moreso think maybe they went 0/7 with 8 people) and so on, but will see soon for myself

[Chardrizard]

Some things shouldn't be highly accessible to most players, but nothing should be locked away because a person doesn't play 24/7.

Shitty players shouldn't be able to access everything because they're on alot and good players shouldn't be barred from said content because they don't play enough. Time spent online shouldn't be a deciding factor, within reason, say 2~3hrs should be enough time to go in and do anything once. Though what we ended up with was a little obnoxious.

2 of this statement is very contradictionary, one you suggest some content shouldnt be accessible to most players but doesnt lock them away, 3hour content does lock people away that doesnt have that playtime.

2-3hrs is long and you still need time to reform group and such, it will lock people that doesnt have playtime away.

Currently all content is casual friendly and should remain that way, sure currently RNG system does frustates people, they should probably tokenize alot of things, but again how do you keep some things prestige? when you tokenize everything, all become predictable on how long it takes to achieve? how do you maintain something to be a rare? Nobody has come up with solution to this.

[Velhart]

It really is "The Ghost of Tanaka" coming into this system. I believe the original intent of the RNG system was to balance out casual and hardcore play. The problem is, we are now back at step one that made FFXIV horrendous in the first place. This game punishes the hardcore by catering the casuals. Making a system that gives chance to both hardcore and casuals to get the best items in the game.

This is most definitely not the way to go in MMO's. The number one rule in MMO's has to be that the hard working should be better rewarded than the ones who don't play as much. I understand you don't have 24/7 to play the game, but some do, and they should be rewarded for all their hard work they put into the game. You can play and catch up at your own pace.