Fresh Start will ruin 2.0

[Zyph]

I don't think anything will happen to make the game unplayable. But i do think inflation would be noticeable enough that people would complain, and SE would do something to "fix" it. And thats where the problem lies.

That's the first thing you've said that I agree with. Also seems to be a pretty different opinion from your thread title, glad you're coming around.

The problem is not an economic one, it's a "how much SE listens to their playerbase" problem, which is the root of A LOT of other problems and general stupidity on these forums.

[JakeRoon]

I don't think it's going to be as bad of a problem as you guys think.

Sure as you're born SE is gonna have some nice new sets of gear all ready to buy for higher level players right at launch of 2.0....gonna cost a FORTUNE. Everyone will buy it willy nilly blowing all those months of hard earned gil, thus "evening the playing field" (why do I feel like a commie typed that?) as you out it.

But even if they didn't, how is higher level / longer playing players having much more money really any different than any other mmo ever played?

[Tonkra]

I think there is no need for new servers..

the time that will pass till 2.0. is almost the same period of time which passed between Final Fantasy XI JP ->US->EU (chains of promathia)->Xbox360 release..
you have created your character on one of the "old" FFXI servers when you have been a european, and you also had a chance to catch up with other people.

so why there are new servers needed? im totally against it to split new players from the old.
if you create a new char on WoW servers now you also have a chance.

you will ever have a chance to catch up with the old players. the idea is so "carebear"...



old servers need new players to stay alive and to fresh it up! also in the low level..
totally stupid idea, if you ask me..

[MrKupo]

Considering SE is planning on adjusting Hamlet according to individual servers, I don't see how it is a farcry for them to adjust policies for economy based on individual servers also.

[Laraul]

the sad fact is this game has been exploited and botted without repercussions for the past 2 years. And if they treat the old servers the same as the new, one of them will lose out and will have an economic collapse. And that will ruin 2.0 at least for some servers.

These exploits and botters have no influence on me or most everyone else playing. I see NO REASON why they should be addressed just cuz you need a scapegoat. And economy is a living, breathing thing with a mind of it's own. You can not simply meld it to fit your whims. Doing so will ALWAYS cause it to bite you back in time.

And when are you going to face that RMT are a part of the game? What's wrong with them? Because they let people "cheat"? Since when was performing a currency exchange cheating? And since when is it appropriate to tell others what they may do with their hard earned money. You know why they have that money? Cuz maybe they we're WORKING and NOT PLAYING THE GAME EARNING GIL.

I don't understand what any of this has to do with "fresh start" servers. I don't understand why all you offer is "what-ifs" and examples from FFXI, but never ask "what-if SE did nothing where would the economies in FFXI be today?" I don't understand why on one server the average amount of gil per person would matter. You provide no other information such as server population, or the server's GDP at the time. You only deal with fixed amounts, not percentages. No one deals in fixed amounts in the real world simply because it's not possible to measure economies that way. This entire post(s) is one big "what-if the RMT take over like FFXI" rant.

What I find most ironic, if I was as confident in how an economy was going to turn out as you are, the *last* thing I would do would be to try to do something that would change it as I would profit greatly. Perhaps this is part of some devious plan?!?

[Ryuko]

/threadderail



That's actually pretty much the definition of capitalism, just not American capitalism. I just thought this was really funny and indicative of the fact that American capitalism is as far from true capitalism as true socialism is.

/endthreadderail

Yes, I am talking about capitalism in the American sense as I am assuming that a large amount of people reading this subset of the forums are NA (not EVERYONE... but a good amount for enough people to understand where I'm coming from).

My point about monopolies being next to impossible in this game still stands. The only time I see a monopoly being truly possible is if/when they implement HNM's with 'the best gear in the game' that only pop a certain amount of times... THEN, you will see LS's camping them like you wouldn't believe, getting the gear, and once they have equipped everyone they wanted to, selling it for whatever price they deem necessary. That isn't happening right now. Getting any piece of crafted gear REALLY isn't that hard if your mind is set on it.

How hard is it, really, to get a crafting job to 50, gear it appropriately, and get the items to make an expensive piece of gear? It's not even comparable to how hard it is in real life, in any country, no matter what type of capitalism your country utilizes.

Do you really think this game is the definition of capitalism? It just isn't. It can't be because it's a game. A game can't ever be the true definition of capitalism because we aren't LIVING it. We're not 'fighting to survive' as it were. We don't have to 'eat' in the game, or spend other expenses for 'upkeep'. There is no debt or loans we have to deal with. Hell, we don't even have to pay for our FREE inn. Retainers are taxed, but only to a very slight (almost laughable) amount. All we have to do to keep ourselves in check is get our gear repaired (next to free if you have a friend do it, but still affordable if you MUST do it at an NPC considering levequest rewards). If you want to be a GOOD player, you need to buy/make food, or get HQ items with multiple melds, but you can still live and thrive without it.

[waldo]

This thread makes my head hurt.

In the US people over the age of 60 are 20 times richer than those under the age 30... It's because that 60 year old dude has worked for 40-45 years and the 30 year old dude worked for 10.

So you've worked at XIV for 2 years, you have more Gil than the dude that worked at it for 2 months, no brainer right?
Gas, ectricity, a pound of ground beef, and an acre of dirt would cost them both the same, who gives a shit if the young dude has to work a little longer to afford it, the old dude already put his time in.

Why would this game be any different than that?

[Elexia]

This thread makes my head hurt.

In the US people over the age of 60 are 20 times richer than those under the age 30... It's because that 60 year old dude has worked for 40-45 years and the 30 year old dude worked for 10.

So you've worked at XIV for 2 years

Stopped here because you forgot to mention:

1. Gil was in surplus at the start of service, you could literally make millions on guildleves in a relatively short time compared to now, even spamming 99 leves you won't hit a million+ gil in as short of a period, simply because the way rewards work when you're over leveled and the fact low level leves don't produce that much gil as is.

2. Vendor prices were much much higher on certain items early on as well, thus people made twice as much gil selling to vendors then compared to now.

So while yes "working more/longer means you have more gil", you have to take into consideration that isn't why a lot of people actually had a lot of gil compared to someone new playing (in present time), especially if you're comparing to someone who started in 2010 when the game was horribly broken and horribly unoptimized in even its singular content system.

Nowadays you don't get near as much gil from leves like you used to, not even faction leves. Evaluations can come close (specially for achievement) however it's no where near as lucrative as 2010 just doing regular 8 leves every 36-48 hours ontop of vendoring everything you get for 1-5k a pop.

[Azurymber]

These exploits and botters have no influence on me or most everyone else playing. I see NO REASON why they should be addressed just cuz you need a scapegoat. And economy is a living, breathing thing with a mind of it's own. You can not simply meld it to fit your whims. Doing so will ALWAYS cause it to bite you back in time.

And when are you going to face that RMT are a part of the game? What's wrong with them? Because they let people "cheat"? Since when was performing a currency exchange cheating? And since when is it appropriate to tell others what they may do with their hard earned money. You know why they have that money? Cuz maybe they we're WORKING and NOT PLAYING THE GAME EARNING GIL.

I don't understand what any of this has to do with "fresh start" servers. I don't understand why all you offer is "what-ifs" and examples from FFXI, but never ask "what-if SE did nothing where would the economies in FFXI be today?" I don't understand why on one server the average amount of gil per person would matter. You provide no other information such as server population, or the server's GDP at the time. You only deal with fixed amounts, not percentages. No one deals in fixed amounts in the real world simply because it's not possible to measure economies that way. This entire post(s) is one big "what-if the RMT take over like FFXI" rant.

What I find most ironic, if I was as confident in how an economy was going to turn out as you are, the *last* thing I would do would be to try to do something that would change it as I would profit greatly. Perhaps this is part of some devious plan?!?

what i don't understand is why you are asking economic questions when you don't understand economics....
GDP = private consumption + gross investment + government spending + (exports − imports)

Protip... this game doesn't have gross investment, government spending, exports, or imports..........


further.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._%28nominal%29
OH LOOK... maybe people do look at economies based on fixed amounts......


Maybe if you bothered to learn economics before you tried to pretend that you understand it you would better understand whats going on in this topic....

[Azurymber]

Stopped here because you forgot to mention:

1. Gil was in surplus at the start of service, you could literally make millions on guildleves in a relatively short time compared to now, even spamming 99 leves you won't hit a million+ gil in as short of a period, simply because the way rewards work when you're over leveled and the fact low level leves don't produce that much gil as is.

2. Vendor prices were much much higher on certain items early on as well, thus people made twice as much gil selling to vendors then compared to now.

So while yes "working more/longer means you have more gil", you have to take into consideration that isn't why a lot of people actually had a lot of gil compared to someone new playing (in present time), especially if you're comparing to someone who started in 2010 when the game was horribly broken and horribly unoptimized in even its singular content system.

Nowadays you don't get near as much gil from leves like you used to, not even faction leves. Evaluations can come close (specially for achievement) however it's no where near as lucrative as 2010 just doing regular 8 leves every 36-48 hours ontop of vendoring everything you get for 1-5k a pop.

This...
Plus this thread has absolutely nothing to do with new people making less than old people. It has to do with the amount of money in circulation on different servers and how that could effect SEs decision making

For example: say SE implemented a repeatable dynamis. They had to decide on what to charge for an hourglass. "look at all the players with capped gil, lets charge 5mil a pop" they might say. So on my server, 5mil a pop is nothing. But on a new server people might need to work for weeks or months to get 5mil. Hence people on the new server cry about how its unfair, and SE drops the price to 500k. But now people on the old server can do like 1000s of dynamis runs. People on the new server cry that people on the old server have 10 times more dynamis gear then them. SE abandons gil and makes everything a primal fight.

Thats just one -possible- example.

Yes, they can work around it if:

They treat different servers differently (resulting in cross-server rage at unfair treatment)
But then, they can't let anyone ever transfer to that server because if 10 people brought capped gil they would destroy the servers economy

They never use gil as anything more than trading currency
In this case they might as well just get rid of npcs that sell stuff. Make airships and stuff like that free. And never introduce elite dynamis-level gear that have purchasable items (as people with 999,999,999 will grab them all up like hotcakes and have a dynamis weapon a month after its released, again pissing ppl off on the new servers who will never see one for years)

And there are a lot of other very good ways they could work around it mentioned here.