When is PLD Getting Fixed So It Can Be a VIABLE Tank?

[Chardrizard]

You can materia Vintage+1 which makes them way more useful than enmity+10 which really only increase your enmity by 1%.

[Alerith]

You can materia Vintage+1 which makes them way more useful than enmity+10 which really only increase your enmity by 1%.

I find even one piece with +10 Enmity to be useful. Sure, it may only be 1%, but when it stacks with everything else, it actually means quite a bit.

PLD AF (+10) with Thormoen's Puprose (+10), Materia Cobalt Plate Belt (+20), Coral Armillae +1 (+10) and Stonewall Earrings (+10), this gives a decent +60 Enmity, or 6%.

6% additional enmity from a Spirit's Within just from using basic gear (the belt being a single meld), is a very nice boost, and since it applies to all actions, that's still 6% more enmity you have over your mages and DD (not factoring in their own +/- enmity gear.)

I personally find it useful. You can certainly materia a Vintage to be better, sure. But this is the case with all meldable gear vs non-meldable.

[Chardrizard]

Oh i am not saying Thormoen's is useless, i am just weighin the trade-off between double defense/hp+ and enmity+10.

[Eagleheart]

Oh i am not saying Thormoen's is useless, i am just weighin the trade-off between double defense/hp+ and enmity+10.

Defense has limited use against increasingly powerful enemies, so I, personally, lean towards double HP shields. Unfortunately, I have blown up all the double attempts so far. x.x Eventually, it might prove a spiffy option - just got to get the items to cooperate.

[Viritess]

I've just recently gotten my PLD to 50 and AF'ed so my experience is limited. I have no idea how it played prepatch.

I have tanked a couple non dungeon baddies though, and i so far have had little Enmity issues even as i start building a real tanking set. My limited complains of PLD, and GLD, compirse of 2 things though.

1. Low acc + low damage should never exsist in my opinion. Save Lower ACC for Higher burst weapons. Base ACC should be high if a class is using a low damage weapon. This would mean Gradual but conistant enmity gain for PLD/GLD normal attacks and enmity neutral WS. While a 2hander tank like warrior would have a more bursty Enmity gain.

I also think it fits the theme also, Higher defencive tank, slow and steady.

2. There are a few skills i question just why they need to stay seperate skills.

Aegis Boon and Outmanuver could, with some slight tweaking be rolled into one. If the issue is the cooldown, keep the boon cooldown, and switch the TP gain to "For X number of blocks" Why? Because most often if your going to garuntee yourself a block, its prudent to get TP from it since its garunteed. 100% chance to block 100% chance for TP. I can see some reasons to use them seperately, but few if any that would really outweigh using them together nearly all the time.

The second one that comes to mind is more debateable because there is is some use to having them seperate, however myself, and as evidenced in this thread by rotation/priority lists they almost always used together: Flash and Sentinel.

If Flash gained enmity, and Boosted Enmity for all actions following (and perhaps a built in boost to either to the initial Flash itself, OR my preferance: When the effect of boosted enmity ends, a small amount of enmity is applied to all enmies effected by Flash)

while this would slightly simplifiy some skills having an enmity boost on end of duration would also put extra thought in when to use this should you be in need of tank switching. But also give you a chance to grab an enemy back if it just barely pulls off of you, giving you a momentary ping-pong between perhaps a DPS and yourself which could be extreamly fun to try and time/manage between a group for the best effect.

Number 2 is suggested not only because it seems to be how most of these skills are used anyway, but also because it could let folks perhaps do something more interesting a little sooner in the Hate gathering/defence button mashing moments. And because the "Multi squat taunt" i start every tanking session with while hilarious, is kinda silly.

May also make a little room for some new Skills to be added in their place. I vote for a Multi squat taunt skill. Shake Dat Ass.

[Eremor]

I'm also somewhat new to the PLD game, the most noticable problem so far has been the low accuracy, no job should regularly miss WS on level 52 mobs with accuracy rings and accuracy melded sword. However I had some different changes in mind.

Firstly the most important reason I can see for keeping Aegis Boon and Outmaneuver separate is the fact that you can shield block some mobs WS moves, when you pop Aegis Boon when you see these moves going off it not only completely nullifies the WS it also restores much more HP then if you used it to block a normal hit. I like having it as a strategic reflex move, combining it with outmaneuver puts it into a regular skill cycle which means it would not be available to spot-block WSes or as a last ditch HP recovery move.

The two abilities I have an issue with are Sentinel and ... Tempered Will ...

Tempered Will just seems like a waste to me, yeah it's a reflex move like Aegis Boon, but you don't really get anything out of it. Since knockback effects no longer throw you halfway into the next zone it's little trouble to simply run back into place before the mob moves too far. Also since shield blocks nullify knockbacks anyway it's pretty much redundant with Divine Veil.

Sentinel is mostly just broken because it only generates Enmity with damage and not healing/provoke/flash/etc. Even if this were fixed I feel it still could be better.

I've seen some people recommending stances as a way to fix PLD and I'd like to submit the following idea for changing these abilities.

Sentinel: Increases accuracy and nullifies knockback effects when facing a single target, effect ends if you recieve damage from a source other then your current target. Cannot be used simultaneously with Tempered Will.

To keep the loss of damage reduction from sentinel from being too big of an issue, Rampart should be changed to a straight % damage reduction (probably ~20%). This would also help with party survival, since the defense bonus from rampart is fairly negligible now. Also obviously allow PLD to parry as well as block (even if at a lower rate then 2 handed weapons, not being able to at all is just stupid)

Tempered Will: Increases defense and block rate when facing multiple opponents, amount of increase varies with number of targets attacking you. Cannot be used simultaneously with Sentinel.

Enhanced Sentinel trait would be changed to increase accuracy bonus and restore some HP when a knockback is nullified.

As for AOE hate, Flat Blade could probably be replaced with Circle Blade that would have a similar effect (low damage, high enmity) but against all targets around you.

I kinda like the idea behind Riot Blade but it needs to be more useable. I hardly ever have 2000 TP and never have it when I loose hate, so it would be nice if the TP cost were reduced. (I also totally wish the animation was more like it's namesake from FFVIII)

Finally to address the MP issue I think just giving a slight increase to Outmaneuver and adding the MP recover inherently to Cover would be sufficient. The AF would then merely increase this effect, or maybe do something entirely different (AOE cover?)

[Viritess]

I can agree i woudln't want to remove the HP from Boon. I should have mentioned keeping the HP also and adding the TP. But i find it very rare that i'd hit Out-man without hitting Boon also since theres always the chance you wouldn't block. Perhaps i just have yet to face a situation where i saw a point to Out-man without Boon. Concidering the timers I usually have Boon again when Out-man is ready too.

Sentinel would be far more useful to both if ACC was high. Quick, low damage but high ACC hits with Increased Enmity would have an effect. But with misses as it is it can't see its full potential.

Far as Flatblade i'm not totally sure i'd want to replace it with an AOE. I've found it semi handy when other Enmity skills are on cooldown and i have some TP to spare to throw the attack on the secondary tanking target. Not to mention there are (and likely will be more) times when you really don't want to hit more then that single mob.

But perhaps if Riotblade underwent the Lower TP cost (and maybe some pre-req/ positioning changes) Having a chain combo choice of a multi hit single target attack or an AOE attack like circle blade could be an excellent spot for such a skill.

[Chardrizard]

Tempered Will has limited uses but it is very useful especially on Misser, it basically remove your weigh'd status effect from Misser's Bad breath, very very important to get into position quickly when Misser moves so you do not MPK your party when Misser.

Sentinel is very helpful i never see anyone complaining about it, it can serve really well as oshit button, especially when it comes to bosses and you do not have enough time to evade it, you either pop Sentinel or Aegis Boon, saves lifes.

I agree acc was an issue, i already starts to wear double acc rings though, so far have no issue at all sitting at 400 accuracy.

For Riot Blade, i would love positional correction but it's still fine as it is just now. It does 300-400 to Chimera, so i don't even need to combo it for it to be useful. It's a strong WS to begin with.

[Brannigan]

I can agree i woudln't want to remove the HP from Boon. I should have mentioned keeping the HP also and adding the TP. But i find it very rare that i'd hit Out-man without hitting Boon also since theres always the chance you wouldn't block. Perhaps i just have yet to face a situation where i saw a point to Out-man without Boon. Concidering the timers I usually have Boon again when Out-man is ready too.

Outmaneuver and Aegis Boon overwrite each other. I could maybe see the point in combining Outmaneuver and Divine Veil but I don't think it's really all that needed.

[LuciBlack]

Give PLD Dual Wield.
Then he will be able to do more damage and be a more viable tank.