7.5 MSQ [SPOILERS]

[freshavocado]

This is precisely why I believe Halmarut never intended to trigger a premature Rejoining.
Her actions point in a completely different direction.
More specifically, she appears to be attempting to replicate the original summoning of Hydaelyn, positioning herself as the new “heart” in the process, much like Venat once did.
If that’s the case, then everything we’re seeing her manipulation of events, her interaction with the Warrior of Light, and the framing of the crisis is to replace the system that sustain the Source and the Shards

I actually was thinking that shed want the wol to become the next hydaelyn.. what else for the champion to do that to uphold the mothers legacy... good food here i love the theories

[Divinemights]

I still wonder if in the end we are going to have to remake a new Hydealyn and possibly a new Zodiark to take over the jobs they were one doing.

We actually have strong candidates for a new Hydaelyn and Zodiark.
Not only do they share a solid bond, but they’re also demonstrating the same opposing elements: Darkness and Light.

[Wasselin]

I enjoyed the 7.5 MSQ. I love that the Scions are back together, that we revisited Mor'dhona, and that our villain has a clear objective but that there is a possibility of infighting between their group. That's a setup for some interesting storytelling.

That being said I still feel that there is a lack of nuance and depth on display, especially in regards to politics, compared to previous entries in the story. For example, the Garleans seemed a little too cheery upon hearing some pretty basic platitudes from the twins trip to Tural. We also defeated what appeared to be a major player in the void and then convinced him to return home and start rebuilding the void with just a few words. Hopefully this flattening is just to move the story forward quickly and set up story points that will be explored in further detail later.

Also, I felt they need to do a better job explaining how Halmurat knows the Solstice will happen and why no other Ascian brought this up as a possibility. It feels like a massive oversight if Emet-Selch knew about this and didn't weaponize that info to demotivate us during the Rejoining explanations. If Halmarut kept it a secret even from her own kind, the 'why' and 'how' of that secrecy really needs some heavy lifting in the writing.

And my final point is that I do not like the Warrior of Light being compared to Zenos and hate/don't understand why they keep bringing up this plot point. If it’s just Halmarut trying to manipulate us by getting under our skin, I’m on board. But if the writers are trying to force a thematic parallel between us and Zenos again, it feels repetitive and honestly just misses the mark on who the Warrior of Light is (or at least who my Warrior of Light is).

[Alleluia]

The threat of the worlds crashing back together haphazardly b/c the one who was maintaining the artificial barrier separating them is now gone, just seems like the natural next step in the storyline to me. Rejoinings worked precisely b/c the world naturally tries to merge back together given the chance. That's why the aether of a shard flowed towards the Source once the barrier broke, instead of just dissipating into the cosmos or something. At least, that's what I always inferred.

And I'd say the Solstice is the threat this time. And the rejoinings thing is different this time around. The Ascians wanted to preserve/complete all life by joining it all with the source. Halmarut doesn't seem to care which shard of Etherys survives, just that one does. And only one, I assume, cus if its more than one you still have the solstice collision problem.

She seems to have essentially set up a competition btwn the world shards, with the winterers on each being the people she's decided give that shard it's best chance at survival. Or at least, they're the best chance on each shard that would actually listen to her.

By her informing us of her plans and the situation, we've basically been sneakily recruited. We're the source's winterers, the difference btwn us and the others being that we have the means to save everyone(we hope), not just our world.

I don't think this is just "Ascians and Rejoinings 2: Electric Boogaloo". Its just that there are persistent concepts in the world that are logically carrying through.

[Dastan]

The Winterers really aren't "haha I'm a maniacal villain" type. They are more like "We've really tried everything in our power and came to the conclusion we're all screwed. Maybe you can find a better answer. Good luck!" type. That's why they don't really mind us hopping around reflections looking for the answers, because they think there isn't one and it's a waste of time looking for one.

Our WoLs aren't "Chosen hero defeats evil" anymore. We are now more like a philosophical mediator and representative of our world. We've evolved past fighting gods now. We are now fighting against ideas themselves.

[Turtledeluxe]

Also, I felt they need to do a better job explaining how Halmurat knows the Solstice will happen and why no other Ascian brought this up as a possibility. It feels like a massive oversight if Emet-Selch knew about this and didn't weaponize that info to demotivate us during the Rejoining explanations. If Halmarut kept it a secret even from her own kind, the 'why' and 'how' of that secrecy really needs some heavy lifting in the writing.

Right. I am not sure why players are being so obtuse on this point. I can only consider they do not see the problem or prefer to focus more on the broader plot movement. We need way more information about who knew what and when, and if they don't know, the how and why that is the case. Vague conversations asking us to decide or antagonists deliberately punting the question is not satisfying and does not deliver confidence it will ever be addressed.

If it only works correctly with Azem's power, that would easily explain it.
It's all a bit awkward. I'm gonna go and say Halmarut is lying for, whatever reason. Otherwise, while I like the concept, we just dealt with this a couple of years ago.

Lots of people used it before us with no Azem connection though?

[Dastan]

Right. I am not sure why players are being so obtuse on this point. I can only consider they do not see the problem or prefer to focus more on the broader plot movement. We need way more information about who knew what and when, and if they don't know, the how and why that is the case. Vague conversations asking us to decide or antagonists deliberately punting the question is not satisfying and does not deliver confidence it will ever be addressed.



Lots of people used it before us with no Azem connection though?

Not "Lots of people" only a small handful of people, and they were only able to use it once and got stuck in the area they ported to. We literally just had a patch that explained Preservation trying to use it and failing to do so......

[HyperiusUltima]

Just reading this thread, I'd like to give my two cents on what we're looking into for Evercold:

- Halmarut and the Winterers as a neutral antagonist, considering that we have the Solstice(natural rejoining, not the artificial ones the Ascians did in their original plot) - they have the same goal, but the methods differ from ours, as reputable as they can be(Calyx)

- The question of morality when it comes to what we have to decide in the face of certain doom - real doom this time(not the Song of Oblivion at the edge of the universe caused by Hermes) - do we sacrifice the things we care about to save the world? Do we do things we found questionable from past villains(Emet Selch, Elidibus, Zenos) to be able to actually make progress towards saving the star? Or do we go along as normal, only to find ourselves in the very position that Calyx warns us about?

- "Let none bar your path." That line in particular tells me that Azem wants(which, we can assume is Azem in the cutscene) us to unite the stars once more - but we're at odds. Rejoinings cause Calamities. Though it becomes a catch 22: Do you want to cause one calamity at a time, or do you want to cause the Solstice which will basically reset Etheirys to Factory Settings? The lesser of two evils is one thing to think about, but there is another path to take - we just haven't found it yet, but whatever it is, Azem does want us go on the path we choose regardless of who gets in the way.

Personally, this has actually raised the bar for me in regards to Evercold: Because this has the potential to be a story that can rival Shadowbringers in the community with what has already been put forth in 7.5.

What I will ask for the writing team to do is make the player's choices matter. Have it affect the story in some way, and change our approach to it. It'd provide a lot of opportunity that was heavily lacking in Dawntrail and player agency that we haven't had the chance to get before.

[DiaDeem]

Lots of people used it before us with no Azem connection though?

I thought the problem for everyone else is that it never behaved correctly or was ever fully useful.

[Brynne]

Right. I am not sure why players are being so obtuse on this point. I can only consider they do not see the problem or prefer to focus more on the broader plot movement. We need way more information about who knew what and when, and if they don't know, the how and why that is the case. Vague conversations asking us to decide or antagonists deliberately punting the question is not satisfying and does not deliver confidence it will ever be addressed.

My thoughts, although I would prefer if the story addressed your point and didn't just leave us to speculate: Halmarut the Ancient would not have known anything other than "nature heals itself"; she didn't know there would be Shards. Once awakened as an Ascian, maybe she realized this and brought it to Elidibus (who, with his patchy memory, just kind of melds it all into "we definitely need Rejoinings" where the reasons kind of escape him). There's a moment in a side quest where Elidibus returns to the Aetherial Sea and you hear his thought of something like "but with the way the Star is going now...", which would presumably refer to Halmarut's prediction. I don't see why Halmarut would feel the need to share it with everyone, considering they're doing Rejoinings before destroying Hydaelyn anyway so it doesn't even register an alarm bell. Afterwards, I'm guessing she decides to do what she's doing now and continue the work of either Rejoining or coming up with an alternate solution (Calyx and the Winterers).

I also think her talk about "time immemorial" is more a part of a performance for the WoL than anything. It sounds pretty cool, doesn't it? But yeah, she wouldn't have known about Shards auto-Rejoining until she woke up as an Ascian and there were Shards around.

Anyway, like I said, just some thoughts. Maybe the story will confirm one way or another eventually.