Thread: 7.5 MSQ [SPOILERS]

Without further explanation, none of the current antagonism makes sense. Here is why:

1. No other person other than Halmarut anticipated this. So either everyone is an idiot (unbelievable), she did not tell anyone (unbelievable), or she is lying. Didn't Halmarut have an ethical obligation to come forward before now?
2. Calyx tells us he was picked to cause rejoining. But in DT he wasn't doing that. If anything, he was looking for a way to preserve consciousness under the assumption Solstice was inevitable.
3. What have the Winterer's been doing this whole time?
4. Can't we just solve this by going to Elpis?
5. Why were no Ascians using this key?
6. Calyx is telling us all their plans, acting like a double agent. But he is also a murderer so..?? What?
7. Is the world ending or not? Zero learns of this and is like "um anyway hey do u want to farm light, sure hope we fix this darkness thing". If the characters do not perceive this threat, is it even a real threat or a herring??

The story is a mess.

I also want to add a more speculative thought:

Calyx sorta lays out the theme of this arc here. "Is there any conclusion you desire so strongly you would sacrifice anything to get it?". That's good but here is the problem. We should be learning this theme over time, not having it laid out in front of us. I would say this is only relevant to Evercold, except that Calyx openly told us to expect a Winterer shard gauntlet themed around ambition. This reeks of Dawntrail writing. They said we would get a tropey anime tournament already. Well, did you enjoy that? Was that done well? Now it feels like they are turning the MSQ into Yu Yu Hakusho/DBZ territory where we are being pit against 5 or so baddies and they all have their own vice. Oo how exciting and original. Idk. I am bored.

I liked the story, and I am hoping part 2 with 7.56 can keep this momentum going as the penultimate push to 8.0. My main issue right now is that there is not a single reason to take the Winterers remotely seriously other then "There is an Ascian here!"

Some might go "But Calyx!..." but I'm gonna stop that right before it even starts: we already wiped the floor with him. His entire life's work is, for the most part, gone, and now the story will proceed to do it's best to make you go "Please listen to his words and take him seriously" for the next 10 or so years while this new saga unfolds as he runs around as a fucking marketable plushie that, based on what I have seen from people who streamed 7.5, are just constantly laughing at him and saying how fucking stupid he looks now running around like that.

Some might also go "Okay, but Halmarut...": currently, Halmarut is a whole pile of nothing and has no merit to be taken even remotely seriously as a threat. Yes, she was just introduced, and yes, we will learn more about her as this saga goes on since I don't see her getting axed for the next several expansions given her importance to the whole thing, and yes, she is an Ascian so she will be doing the whole Ascian thing and scheming. But we as the WOL have slain pretty much all the Ascians that stood in our way, and triumphed over everything they have thrown at us as well, including the Final Days which eradicated nearly all of them in the first place, so the devs/storywriters just going "Look it's Halmarut the Ascian! This is a big problem right?!" is just not going to cut it now, especially given we could probably just sneeze and she'd fucking evaporate back to the aetherial sea given how strong we are, along with what we have/can accomplish when put into apparently "impossible" situations with no answer to be had.

Evercold NEEDS to give a genuine reason to even take the Winterers, or even just Halmarut and her stupid emo plush doll boy, remotely seriously, or provide some kind of pushback to the whole "I'm the hero of this game, so what I do WILL be the correct option and WILL cause the perfect good ending" rhetoric because right now I am unironically expecting the story to go:

- We go to the 4th
- We stop the Winterer's project on the 4th
- We do our own thing and implement our own solution
- We "save/fix" the 4th and get a "perfect ending" with uniting the shard our way
- Winterers go "Darn. You foiled us. But there is always [insert next shard here]."
- We repeat this for another 10 years

Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

Without further explanation, none of the current antagonism makes sense. Here is why:

1. No other person other than Halmarut anticipated this. So either everyone is an idiot (unbelievable), she did not tell anyone (unbelievable), or she is lying. Didn't Halmarut have an ethical obligation to come forward before now?
2. Calyx tells us he was picked to cause rejoining. But in DT he wasn't doing that. If anything, he was looking for a way to preserve consciousness under the assumption Solstice was inevitable.
3. What have the Winterer's been doing this whole time?
4. Can't we just solve this by going to Elpis?
5. Why were no Ascians using this key?
6. Calyx is telling us all their plans, acting like a double agent. But he is also a murderer so..?? What?
7. Is the world ending or not? Zero learns of this and is like "um anyway hey do u want to farm light, sure hope we fix this darkness thing". If the characters do not perceive this threat, is it even a real threat or a herring??

My response to the doubts raised is as follows:

1. Halmarut’s foresight and Azem connection
Halmarut likely anticipated the current situation due to her possible association with Azem.
If she is connected to Azem’s legacy, it would also explain her involvement in providing the Azem Key to the Lalafells who escaped to the Ninth.
Beyond simple benevolence, this can also be interpreted as a controlled test evaluating whether the Key can enable stable large scale interdimensional travel.

2. Calyx and the “Endless” as a proposed solution
Calyx may not be acting independently, but instead representing one faction within a broader group attempting to solve the “Solstice” problem.
From this perspective, his “Endless” concept is simply one proposed solution among many competing ideologies.

3. The Winterer as distributed experimentation
Each Winterer likely represents a different experimental approach to preserving humanity in the face of Solstice.
Rather than a single organization, they may operate across multiple shards, each testing a distinct philosophical or practical solution.

4. Timeline context: post-Elpis divergence
Since the Sundering occurs after the events of Elpis, both Venat and Emet-Selch have already departed from that point in the timeline.
This reinforces the idea that later interventions (including Halmarut’s actions) operate within a fractured, post-foundational reality where original consensus no longer exists.

5. Halmarut’s strategic collaboration hypothesis
My core theory is that Halmarut is secretly collaborating with Azem or acting in accordance with Azem’s legacy.
This would explain her apparent understanding of the Key’s function and her anticipation of what would occur as the Warrior of Light continues along their current trajectory.

6. Calyx as a controlled variable
Calyx is not an independent actor in the traditional sense.
He is effectively within Halmarut’s “sphere of control.”
He is literally existing in Halmarut's inventory (metaphorically or literally), then his approach to the Warrior of Light could not occur without her awareness.
This further supports the idea that Halmarut requires the Warrior of Light’s presence on the Fourth Shard as part of a larger design.

7. The trolley problem is illusory
There is always a third option.
The central question is not whether the world will end, but whether the Warrior of Light can recognize a path beyond binary outcomes.
In line with Azem’s philosophy, the assumption that there are only two choices may itself be the fundamental misdirection.

1. If this is the case there is no foreshadowing. Alisae asks this directly and rather than addressing the plot hole, Halmarut says "time immemorial" which means since time began, too long ago to matter, or is just deception. That isn't good writing. You enjoy Shadowbringers, which included deception that while not perfect, was executed with intent, especially upon a second viewing.

2. Right but they need to pick one or again, show awareness of the contradiction. Are the Winterer's forming contingency plans, pursuing rejoinings, or both? And how many times is blatant obfuscation going to be ok?

3. I am talking about the timeline. Hydaelyn dies. When do the interviews for these candidates occur. I am assuming all their activity will conviently begin post death and resolve seauentially for xpacs, which is contrived considering the time dilation element they totally give up on when convenient.

4. Elpis is not post sundering What? We were shown cinematics of what happens, that does not confirm the Elpis conjoined to us has experienced sundering. Halmarut and Azem theoretically would be there. Even if they aren't, you did not answer the "everyone is an idiot" or "she didn't tell anyone" problems. Was no one stidying this? Guess not. Contrived. So many people have to be oblivious that it means its all, once again, a herring.

5. This wouldn't really be a surprise. Our MC already suspects the Azem connection. Its predictable and needs more to be interesting, like Azem manipulating both Halmarut and WoL or something.

6. So he has bad dialogue because of Halmarut? My point is, why do we need to know his moral parameters? Also I think you are overlooking his tone regarding his "own designs". Based on his highly individualistic philosophy espoused as well, it gives me hints of double agent.

7. Right. The trailer spoils the happy ending.

Also to contextualize, I am not asking if this can be explained. It can be. I am pointing out the writing itself does not account for these possibilities effectively. When Halmarut says "Well I know because I have always known", our characters nod and say "Hmm maybe you are lying but maybe not". That is bad writing. You are giving logical resolutions to questions but those do not retroactively make this writing good. We will not look back on being duped and say "Wow she really tricked us" because she has no explanation for her own knowledge.