Worqor Chirteh feedback

[Aidorouge]

There are at least 97 people on Behemoth that are listed in the weekly standings. You must play 10 matches to be listed. 8 worlds on primal. True, maybe it wont be as active with sometimes 2-3 matches happening at the same time. Maybe the active time for pvp will contract. But, despite the balance, map and other issues, people want to and enjoy pvp and they enjoy Frontlines. Otherwise, they would be getting their pvp fix from CC. Or RW (seriously, if you enjoy that mode, queue up. If there are enough, it will pop. And I'd be happy for you).

Meh, I can barely tolerate 7 matches of Frontlines a week myself for the challenge (and I've gone whole weeks with 0 wins for that matter), and this will thankfully be my last week once I max out the Series XP and go back to not queuing at all until next season.

Whether or not I enjoy RW more doesn't matter because I know it doesn't pop outside of mogtomes events, and even then 90% of matches are people just faffing about waiting for the other side to hurry up and win, same with a lot of my CC matches actually, and of course we all know about leechers and AFKers in Frontlines. Though premades hurt matches far worse in my opinion and end up encouraging more people to be lethargic because "why bother" when one team already has the win on lock.

I'm not gonna blow smoke up my own tail trying to pretend PVP is more popular than it actually is, or that most people (including the developers) care about the health of any of the modes given they even started letting premades into CC. Whatever fun I had when I first started doing PVP has long faded and I treat it as a chore I do every few months, and if not for Series rewards, I likely wouldn't touch it ever again.

[ChrysOCE]

Why do you even put yourself through it though. I cannot understand this mentality. You seem to hate pvp but you torture yourself to do it? For what? Rewards? The glam is never that good. The mounts are never that good. Who is pretending it is more popular than it is? I'm just telling you that people queue in more than just the 1 match a day for roulette. If you removed the roulette reward, these people would still queue into frontlines.

[aereniil]

Why do you even put yourself through it though. I cannot understand this mentality. You seem to hate pvp but you torture yourself to do it? For what? Rewards? The glam is never that good. The mounts are never that good. Who is pretending it is more popular than it is? I'm just telling you that people queue in more than just the 1 match a day for roulette. If you removed the roulette reward, these people would still queue into frontlines.

As a newbie(*) Frontline enjoyer(*), I approve this message






*: who only remotely knows to play RDM with average skill, but has fun; and only plays casual while not giving a care for things like meta, but loves contributing into rare fascinating-to-witness fights; and currently cares less about balance issues, premades, afkers, leechers/slackers, rouletters, for the more simple sake of fun in PvP

[Aidorouge]

Why do you even put yourself through it though. I cannot understand this mentality. You seem to hate pvp but you torture yourself to do it? For what? Rewards? The glam is never that good. The mounts are never that good. Who is pretending it is more popular than it is? I'm just telling you that people queue in more than just the 1 match a day for roulette. If you removed the roulette reward, these people would still queue into frontlines.

Because it's not a particularly difficult or time-consuming chore to complete, and it's ultimately temporary per Series. Not that I'm lethargic in my playing before someone makes that accusation, and can pull "okay" numbers at least.



But I don't enjoy it or get any sense of accomplishment out of it anymore, and just accept that every outcome is beyond my control to change or even contribute to, even being consistent isn't worth the effort. This match for example? We had an 8-stack in our team, so OF COURSE we were going to win no matter what. I could have gone 0/15/0 for all the difference it would have made in the long run, and it's knowing just how on-rails PVP is (even more than PVE depending on which "star players" are q-synching that day/hour) that made me stop taking it seriously because I could bust my ass and still come in 3rd or do absolutely nothing and still take 1st, and the generally enforced "33.3% 33.3% 33.3%" also means there's no point in striving for further.

Not that I'm suggesting that Frontline queue times will tank if I don't show up, I'm sure they pop plenty when I'm not around, and I'm a complete nobody across all possible PVP channels before and after moving to Primal. I'm just saying I'm filler, same with a lot of other people, and it's only when said filler collectively decides the mode (if not the entire game) isn't worth it anymore that queue times might slow down, and that if Frontlines was dependent entirely on only those who actually enjoyed playing, it would become as "insular" as Ranked CC is where you'd only ever see the same people anymore, but then maybe that's what they all want anyway so meh.

[aereniil]

Because it's not a particularly difficult or time-consuming chore to complete, and it's ultimately temporary per Series. Not that I'm lethargic in my playing before someone makes that accusation, and can pull "okay" numbers at least.

But I don't enjoy it or get any sense of accomplishment out of it anymore, and just accept that every outcome is beyond my control to change or even contribute to, even being consistent isn't worth the effort. This match for example? We had an 8-stack in our team, so OF COURSE we were going to win no matter what. I could have gone 0/15/0 for all the difference it would have made in the long run, and it's knowing just how on-rails PVP is (even more than PVE depending on which "star players" are q-synching that day/hour) that made me stop taking it seriously because I could bust my ass and still come in 3rd or do absolutely nothing and still take 1st, and the generally enforced "33.3% 33.3% 33.3%" also means there's no point in striving for further.

Not that I'm suggesting that Frontline queue times will tank if I don't show up, I'm sure they pop plenty when I'm not around, and I'm a complete nobody across all possible PVP channels before and after moving to Primal. I'm just saying I'm filler, same with a lot of other people, and it's only when said filler collectively decides the mode (if not the entire game) isn't worth it anymore that queue times might slow down, and that if Frontlines was dependent entirely on only those who actually enjoyed playing, it would become as "insular" as Ranked CC is where you'd only ever see the same people anymore, but then maybe that's what they all want anyway so meh.

Sorry if I'm wrong or if it sounds irrespectful or unsolicited, but it kinda saddens me to read people that seem disappointed and lose some passion (not necessarly all passion) in any content of any game they play or played (be it PvP or not). There are indeed a lot of factors in Frontline (and ffxiv PvP in general) that escape our control. At least not without investing a huge - though not always rewarding - amount of time and efforts (or having genuine talent and mates), and even then, no human being could constantly/consistently always control everything 24/7.

Even I concede that Frontline is filled to the brim by flaws that are detrimental to gameplay and fun, and that they are sometimes exhausting, demotivating, unrewarding, and/or demoralizing.

Alas, there’s no immediate miraculous fix for these flaws.

[aereniil]

But I wanted to share something.

Before Frontline, I hated PvP sooooo much because of past experiences - and I still hate ranked PvP today.

Your post reminded me that what makes Frontline different for me (and why I still love it after 1500 matches) is that it feels truly casual. I don’t feel crushed by rankings or elite ladder rewards. I definitely am not made for this kind of PvP, and don't want to aim it.

That's why I like to think in FL that winning is not the most fundamentally important point, even though I too like winning and that I don't mean that you shouldn't aim for victory xD. It's just that having a simpler fun time than in all those ranked PvP games is the most valuable experience I get from FL.

This fun is super personnal, I know, and there are days or games without fun in FL. But when days come that I get tired of playing FL, I just stop and don't force myself until I'm in for some fun again.

So it saddens me to read people being so disappointed and demoralized by Frontline (and for relevant and legitimate reasons).

[TofuLove]

What a classic, Worqor feedback got sidetracked with FL concept discussion... what's next? People complaining about premades for sure. Those god damn voice chatting, game throwing, discord lurking premades!!!

I am here to set y'all straight. Onto Worqor:

Hasn't really made that much of a difference. Player behavior is still the same. Chasing nodes instead of fighting, then being shocked that they can't hold/fight back on nodes late game vs teams with better BH. Still far too much running. So many matches, I see 10+ people on uncontested triumphs. I can't wait for this map to come off daily rotation and have it's own separate day.

It still blows my mind that they supposedly designed this map to encourage pvp.

It honestly doesn't feel that spawn rate change was significant, the nodes still spawn all over the place. Still too easy to avoid fighting all together.

I can't wait for this map to come off daily rotation and have it's own separate day.

Amen to that brother.

[aereniil]

What a classic, Worqor feedback got sidetracked with FL concept discussion... what's next? People complaining about premades for sure. Those god damn voice chatting, game throwing, discord lurking premades!!!

Indeed, I am sorry xD.
As I said :

But back to topic, Worqor is at most an average and sometimes fun map that had some potential at the beginning.
The A/S ranks spawn positions/algorithm spoil more than it gives fun. The map further incentivize people to afk on nodes.
However, at least at the start, the layout and design had some potential and fun opportunities to exploit (like the three-way middle bridge or the verticality design that hide an incoming ambush or create stressful "enemy above" situations). And I find the mechanics during the game interesting, often useful (even either life-saving or stessful in a stimulating way at times), and refreshing compared to other maps.
And like it or not, no matter the reason or the "new fresh, always up map" effect, people played it over and over for weeks, so maybe that filled the objectives for SE.

But nowadays, I start to see people moving away from this map (at the benefit of other maps), so it may be done in the future.

Edit : The mechanics I found well done are the ground aoe shield, the snowmen, and the auroras (only the LB effect, the S-rank spawn rate bonus is unwelcome) . People complain about them being bad, and there may be situations where they be right, but I find them more useful, helping, and stimulating when used in good situations (helping get forward to launch an AoE, avoid some damage by moving around snowmen while cds are ticking down, ...). But maybe, it doesn't apply against higher skill level opponents. However, again, the S ranks spawn algorithm is compeletely broken, random, and bad (why MUST two S-rank Triumphs spawn at the same time at opposite sides of the map ?!! and better remove the game timer at this point, and that especially on this map)

[tsuchii]

worqor shitteh in a nutshell:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oy0TtFkgCPQ

[Aidorouge]

But I wanted to share something.

Before Frontline, I hated PvP sooooo much because of past experiences - and I still hate ranked PvP today.

Your post reminded me that what makes Frontline different for me (and why I still love it after 1500 matches) is that it feels truly casual. I don’t feel crushed by rankings or elite ladder rewards. I definitely am not made for this kind of PvP, and don't want to aim it.

That's why I like to think in FL that winning is not the most fundamentally important point, even though I too like winning and that I don't mean that you shouldn't aim for victory xD. It's just that having a simpler fun time than in all those ranked PvP games is the most valuable experience I get from FL.

This fun is super personnal, I know, and there are days or games without fun in FL. But when days come that I get tired of playing FL, I just stop and don't force myself until I'm in for some fun again.

So it saddens me to read people being so disappointed and demoralized by Frontline (and for relevant and legitimate reasons).

For what it's worth, I'm not trying to discourage others from finding and having fun with the mode, so much as just venting that Frontlines ended up another example of "came for one thing, got something completely different" that's kinda marred by experience with Final Fantasy 14 in its entirely.

Personally I enjoy PVP where I can find it, and have even played games that are 100% PVP like hero shooters and MOBAs, but most of those games at least give some sense of personal agency and accomplishment, that I did good by ME win or lose, that I just can't seem to find that in FF14's PVP, not even with Crystalline Conflict. It still feels like so many matches are outside of my control to at least not see turn into a complete stomp because I DON'T WANT matches where one side just gives up completely without trying or another side just crushing everything effortlessly. This is supposed to be a competition, not a poorly choreographed cutscene where all I get to do is watch as things fall where they will, it's only made more maddening because 1v1v1 SHOULD allow for unique plays you can't get in other PVP games that are strictly 1v1 yet somehow it just creates more problems and there's more cases of one team amounting to so little you wonder why they're even there.
+++

What a classic, Worqor feedback got sidetracked with FL concept discussion... what's next? People complaining about premades for sure. Those god damn voice chatting, game throwing, discord lurking premades!!!

I think my complaint is still relevant because it boils down to "either half the people don't want to fight, or the other half doesn't have to try in order to win" and GOD FRICKIN' DAMN is Worqor Chirteh peak examples of both happening, sometimes simultaneously, because it's somehow the most anti-PVP map they've given us yet, while also having the worst cases of snowball matches (involving actual snow no less). Having to play this map so much due to the current rotation only makes it worse having to see the same mistakes made over and over again.