Yet more glorified tomestone weapons

[BokoToloko]

The mere concept of """""relic weapons""""" doesn't actually exist in FFXIV, simply because the vertical progression of the weapons/gear, even with the oh so glorified extreme/ultimate weapons, they will become garbage/simple glamour in less than 2 months in terms of stats...

Way different compared with real relic weapons on Final Fantasy XI, they took months or even a years of pure grind and wait till it was your turn to have one, but it was worth it, they were the really ultimate weapons for the years to come, looks and stats wise. But that worked because they kept the level of the gear synced with you actual level. Even today, the gap between you and the ilvl of the gear is only 19!! While, at the moment, in FFXIV the gap is 700 levels...

It works in a way because people nowadays want immediate gratification and so so aesthetics, so is what SE gives to the majority of people, glowy weapons with somewhat nice aesthetics (time to time), and that's pretty much it. Stats? Nah, they will become trash in 2 months or less.

But hey!, lots of people prefer to have a more or less pretty weapon to show off in no time rather than a super hard grind that may take you years. That is the FFXIV formula and it works, so they pretty much will never change it.

The only people with clear reason to care about getting the highest ilvl weapon are those who do Savage and Ultimate on release, and any design that caters to that population would need the weapons being obtainable within the first week of the patch. Most other content just synchs the ilvl, making BiS irrelevant.

[Valence]

I'll just say that they really should have make crystal pastes more accessible in OC instead of out of OC. As of now, there is no incentive for people to engage with OC for current relic progression, especially considering that doing lvling is marginally better than CEs for getting crystal pastes.

How much do CEs reward in crystal paste out of curiosity? I haven't tried to go back into that dreadful content since I tried it at release...

[GraceHorizon]

5 paste per CE. It’s one of the worst ways to get crystal paste. That’s my only complaint about this stage: Occult Crescent is a poor choice for advancing its own relics this time.

[CCheshire]

5 paste per CE. It’s one of the worst ways to get crystal paste. That’s my only complaint about this stage: Occult Crescent is a poor choice for advancing its own relics this time.

I plan to do some CE in OC because I find it fun in the first place and work on some PJ leveling and because I hate doing leveling rous unless I really need the exp for any alt jobs since it's 10x more tedious than anything else in-game.

[GraceHorizon]

I plan to do some CE in OC because I find it fun in the first place and work on some PJ leveling and because I hate doing leveling rous unless I really need the exp for any alt jobs since it's 10x more tedious than anything else in-game.

Expert and Level Cap roulettes also give 15 paste each so they’re good for mixing up your grind. (And that’s something I find baffling: I thought one of the points of relics was to keep content alive, but the level 100 dungeons already have good incentives to do them.) Arcadion Heavyweight raids also give 8, and I was thinking of combining some of the paste grind with continuing my orchestrion roll grind in M9 and M10.

[TeresaFortell]

How much do CEs reward in crystal paste out of curiosity? I haven't tried to go back into that dreadful content since I tried it at release...

To echo what GraceHorizon said, 5 per CE is far less than doing pilgrim or roulettes.

[Voidmage]

One-time grind followed by a repeatable tomestone step is the healthier and mor sustainable option for both worlds (specially on the long term), much as some people might struggle to come to terms with. Or, as an alternative, having the same step be shorter on subsequent steps like with Cosmic Tools.

You can have complaints about the way each one-time step is designed (like the atmas drop rate being unreliable or the array step being slowed significantly by the Alliance Raid part because of how often the lowest value raids, Crystal Tower ones, would pop) and their lenght but, in a game that increases the amount of Jobs and, thus, the amount of obtainable relic weapons each expansion, the amount of time required to get them all will increase and become harder to balance. With Dawntrail, the game already doubles the amount of jobs it had during ARR.

Do we have to get all weapons? No.
Should we the system allow getting all the weapons without spiraling into absurd amounts of time required? Yes, specially when looking to the future.

Relic weapons should never have been nerfed just so it's easier for completionists. They should have always had their core audience in mind which is the ones looking for a grind in a casual playstyle, no matter if not many people did them (like with raids).
With that logic we could remove leveling from the game because we have so many jobs now.
Most don't have a problem with Tomestones as the second step but people (me included) rightfully complain that it's the only option as well as it being way too cheap for one weapon.
Let me repeat the grind if I want, make Tomestones an option for all I care, people aren't asking for more here anymore because we have already given up.

I am honestly tired of relics being the butt of the joke every time.
First they got "nerfed" because Savage raiders complained.
Then they got nerfed into only the first step being grindy.
Next we got the absolute pile of crap that was the EW relics.
Finally now we are at a point where they aren't even allowed anymore to be the best casual weapon on the day they are released.
What's next? The relic not being bis anymore at the end of an expansion and the better weapon coming out of whatever Savage fight Mr. Ozma is glueing together right now or do we get the bis weapon mailed as soon as we login at the last patch? Apparently it's only those two sides they seem to listen to nowadays.

If they continue to listen to people who want everything reduced to the bare minimum just so they can show their completed Pokédex then the future will be like A-raid roulette is today.

[theunhappypotato]

i like the current step, i think its fine as is

[Kaurhz]

Relic weapons should never have been nerfed just so it's easier for completionists. They should have always had their core audience in mind which is the ones looking for a grind in a casual playstyle, no matter if not many people did them (like with raids).

I think people, and the developers just need to come to realize that not everything should be completed within the expansion (Or they've lost appreciation of what it used to bring).. I used to love having things to carry me over for that several month dry period in the next expansion.. It's largely why in the past I wouldn't be so bothered if the content was backloaded instead of frontloaded.

But now, even if I don't bother at all it's completely irrelevant, doing the one-time steps is disappointingly easy, even on a limited schedule, and the tomestone requirement is so woefully irrelevant that you either get them all naturally by doing daily roulettes (or some hunts), or you collect them all naturally just by levelling to the next level cap of a new expansion.

It's funny though that you mention about completionists, as I used to be this way with relics until late Endwalker, and I honestly didn't feel like I was collecting anything at all.. It was just a roulette (or hunt grind), and ultimately I ended up being so dissatisfied with it all that I ultimately just glamoured my Kinna weapons over all of them. A large part in feeling enticed to collect something, is that the end reward would actually feel satisfying.

[HammAndCheese]

One-time grind followed by a repeatable tomestone step is the healthier and mor sustainable option for both worlds (specially on the long term), much as some people might struggle to come to terms with. Or, as an alternative, having the same step be shorter on subsequent steps like with Cosmic Tools.

You can have complaints about the way each one-time step is designed (like the atmas drop rate being unreliable or the array step being slowed significantly by the Alliance Raid part because of how often the lowest value raids, Crystal Tower ones, would pop) and their lenght but, in a game that increases the amount of Jobs and, thus, the amount of obtainable relic weapons each expansion, the amount of time required to get them all will increase and become harder to balance. With Dawntrail, the game already doubles the amount of jobs it had during ARR.

Do we have to get all weapons? No.
Should we the system allow getting all the weapons without spiraling into absurd amounts of time required? Yes, specially when looking to the future.

I think this point needs to be said more. The way EW relics were just tomes was a step too far but with the way DT has handled them is a step in a better direction, we have 21 jobs with an obtainable relic and that is only going to go up every expansion, the slog will only get worse as more jobs get added if every weapon requires a long drawn out process. Personally, I would like them to adjust the system to like what's going on with the DoL/DoH relics in Cosmic where after you finish each one the next gets slightly easier to obtain/finish (moving away from tomes). People are going to complain either way at this point but striking a healthy balance between tomes and a heavy grind is more important in the long run.