Yet more glorified tomestone weapons

[DarkOmegaGod]

So that's two expansions in a row that we just did not get relics. You can put flashy weapons in the game and call them what you will but they are NOT filling the same content slot that the previous relics did.

You hand out the rewards from the long term grind content for free and then call it a success because your precious metrics show more total people interacted with the system. When in reality all you've done is given people less to do in a game that's already starved for content. The game continues to bleed players at an unprecedented rate quarter over quarter. Maybe it's time to own up to the REALITY that designing a monthly subscription based game for people that do not actually want to play it DOES. NOT. WORK.

[FudoMyoo]

Over there => unsub button.

[Gurgeh]

This is what happens when some players are whining about relic weapon grinds taking too long and start demands relic steps being completed fast as possible without any actual grind, which is main reason why Endwalker relic weapon was nothing more then grinding tomestones and now happening with Dawntrail realic weapons too, when they started to make some of steps being nothing more then tomestone grind.


While i'm skipping phantom weapons completely, not because of the grind in some of steps but because of the Occult Crescent simply being really bad and unplayable mess where doing normal FATE's is pretty much impossible to do when they gets completed in seconds and without being in party, critical encounters are really hard to complete, especially when playing as DPS and you haven't memorized all mechanics to avoid taking damage as much as possible.

Id love to know 'who'? Which demographics? Were complaining there was too much grind.
I actually don't think grind is or was ever the issue. What people don't like, is probably, risk and rng. Its grinding rng that's horrific. F extreme mounts. Even a totem is rng once you factor the clear and the party in, and why farm parties are so sullen and miserable.

As for trying to survive CEs as shutting other than DPS? yeah. I loved the CEs, but it wasn't enough to counterbalance the horror that was the fate sprints. But I main tank. That's games over reliance on DDR mechanics. Its all dodge dodge dodge. There is no room/counter advantage for paper ranged, or real casters (which between then includes healers)
DDR as a 'pervasive' culture needs to go. The only peoplec who should be dodging DDR in ANY difficulty of should be Mele tank in the hitbox.
Perversly it's harder for ranged as aoes are boss centric. Its trigonometry.

[Reimmi]

Over there => unsub button.

ff14 players when someone makes valid complaints about game they enjoy

[Gurgeh]

This is what happens when some players are whining about relic weapon grinds taking too long and start demands relic steps being completed fast as possible without any actual grind, which is main reason why Endwalker relic weapon was nothing more then grinding tomestones and now happening with Dawntrail realic weapons too, when they started to make some of steps being nothing more then tomestone grind.


While i'm skipping phantom weapons completely, not because of the grind in some of steps but because of the Occult Crescent simply being really bad and unplayable mess where doing normal FATE's is pretty much impossible to do when they gets completed in seconds and without being in party, critical encounters are really hard to complete, especially when playing as DPS and you haven't memorized all mechanics to avoid taking damage as much as possible.

Id love to know 'who'? Which demographics? Were complaining there was too much grind.
I actually don't think grind is or was ever the issue. What people don't like, is probably, risk and rng. Its grinding rng that's horrific. F extreme mounts. Even a totem is rng once you factor the clear and the party in, and why farm parties are so sullen and miserable.

As for trying to survive CEs as shutting other than DPS? yeah. I loved the CEs, but it wasn't enough to counterbalance the horror that was the fate sprints. But I main tank. That's games over reliance on DDR mechanics. Its all dodge dodge dodge. There is no room/counter advantage for paper ranged, or real casters (which between then includes healers)
DDR as a 'pervasive' culture needs to go. The only peoplec who should be dodging DDR in ANY difficulty of should be Mele tank in the hitbox.
Perversly it's harder for ranged as aoes are boss centric. Its trigonometry.

[Brandr]

Id love to know 'who'? Which demographics? Were complaining there was too much grind.

You must be new here.
There used be lots of topics asking for the love of Thal's Balls to bring back the oh so perfect EW's relic weapon system.
Sorry that I can't provide any links, I didn't save them and I don't know how to find old threads.

[hydralus]

ff14 players when someone makes valid complaints about game they enjoy

ff14 players when the game design has been consistently simplified for almost a decade and they refuse to admit they're waiting for changes that aren't coming.

[Moqi]

Id love to know 'who'? Which demographics? Were complaining there was too much grind.

The same people who whine when they die once to a dungeon and come here asking for a nerf. Anything harder than talking to 3 people to gather information is too difficult. Anything but farming roulettes is too hard and when they give too many incentives for harder/different content, the more skilled players abandon roulettes. I still remember Brayflox HM speedrun and Garuda EX solo heal farm parties for ARR relics and the horrors of some Hydra/Chimera trials.

Anything but tomestone becomes too exclusionary or dead content because so many people don't do anything beyond watching the MSQ visual novel - and if left amongst themselves, they couldn't even reliably clear dungeons/it would take A LOT more time.

Granted, ATMA step was horrible and the light grind was too high at the beginning so you're right about that too.

ff14 players when someone makes valid complaints about game they enjoy

God forbid someone leaves feedback on the feedback site.

[AlliciaCapulet]

A large part of the community genuinely enjoyed Eureka- and Bozja-style content. Occult Crescent was explicitly presented as a return to that design philosophy, yet in practice it feels like a complete bait-and-switch. There are no CLL- or Dalriada-style critical engagements, no duels, and no meaningful items to farm for relic progression. Instead, relics have once again been reduced to “just buy them with tomestones,” exactly like in Endwalker. Worse still, the second relic step doesn’t even require entering OC at all—just run roulettes and collect tomestones. That doesn’t just miss the point; it actively undermines it.

Relics were never meant to be passive rewards. ARR and Heavensward relics certainly had flaws and were often criticized for being tedious, and those criticisms were fair. But instead of scrapping the concept, Square Enix evolved it with Eureka and then significantly improved it with Bozja. Those systems offered long-term goals, dedicated zones, and progression that actually mattered. Players spent hundreds of hours there not out of obligation, but because the content gave relics real weight.

Yes, some players dislike Eureka- or Bozja-style content. Bozja already solved that problem with a reasonable compromise: you could progress relics outside the zone if you wanted, but doing so inside was faster, more engaging, and clearly the intended path. Turning relics into pure tomestone purchases is not a compromise—it’s a complete erasure of relic identity, and a slap in the face to players who enjoy relic-focused gameplay.

Imagine Square Enix announcing: “To help players who dislike Savage, you can now either clear Savage raids for Savage gear, or simply buy the gear and mounts for 1500 tomestones.” The backlash would be immediate and overwhelming. Yet this exact logic is being applied to relics, apparently without concern.

If you don’t enjoy Savage, the game already provides alternatives: capped tomestone gear and crafted sets. Savage rewards are reserved for those who engage with Savage content. Relics should follow the same principle. No one is forced to obtain a relic, and there is no design justification for making them effectively free.

Since Endwalker, Square Enix seems increasingly committed to removing long-term engagement for non-casual players. Savage and even Ultimate content is cleared at record speed—often within days—after which it becomes a brief weekly routine. Combined with extended patch cycles, this leaves large gaps with nothing meaningful to work toward. Stripping relics of their depth only makes that problem worse.

[AlliciaCapulet]

Id love to know "who"? Which demographics? Were complaining there was too much grind.

That’s exactly the issue: Square Enix often ends up reacting to the loudest voices on the forums, not necessarily to feedback that represents the wider playerbase. Many players who enjoy grind-heavy content don’t post—they’re busy playing it. Silence doesn’t mean dissatisfaction. But some people came on the forum and complained.

One of Yoshi-P’s biggest weaknesses, in my opinion, is trying to please everyone. That’s simply impossible in an MMO. Long-term, grind-focused content has always been something a large portion of the community enjoys. Removing or heavily reducing it doesn’t suddenly make everyone happy—it just alienates those players instead.

Rather than breaking or flattening grind-based systems, the better solution would be to add parallel, casual-friendly alternatives. Give casual players something extra to do, instead of stripping depth from content that others actively enjoy. You can support multiple playstyles without erasing one of them. Relics should stay a long term grind-focused content, the same way savage should remain harder fight that are not fits for everyone.