Worqor Chirteh feedback

[Xactly]

I love the cliffs in the map with how quick you get on there, it offers me more uses to use it and ambush people than shatter.

[aereniil]

We just won a game where we were stamped 200-900-900 at 5 min on this map. We won with the help of a 2nd S rank spawning near our base, very far away from the 1st S-rank contested by the two other teams. Why ? Why can 2 S-rank Triumphs spawn (so far away) over the same period of time ? The other 2 teams were just fighting each other, paying us no mind until the last seconds. Also, the games just end too quickly after they spawn, due to this unbalance often happening (and even too fast to sometimes be able to catch up or follow up as teams).

N.B.: I still commend my team, we did a formidable work slowly getting back into the game. The end was just... between anticlimactic and unbelievable.

[Maldbeast]

==> If I do all of these, then you'll just leave, resent me, kick me, blacklist me, or even insult me if you can. It would be a nightmare to play for everyone else. So why wouldn't it also apply* in PvP ? (*Because FFXIV is not a game that is heavily focused on PvP content ? Is it a fair enough reason ?)

Yeah, we can agree on this. My original post did not differentiate between players who are simply not good at the mode, and players who are intentionally playing poorly/refusing to play. The point I was trying to make was that even people who mainly queue for the rewards and aren't really interested in learning pvp-specific skills can still be a net positive to the team if they're willing to follow a group's gameplan. Extra bodies and extra firepower go a long way in a mode with a comparatively high time-to-kill. I have no problem with learning the ropes and having a poor k/d ratio in fights so long as someone is trying to improve. I certainly sported some awful statlines when learning the mode, but the difference is I was trying to be better.

The players that drive me up the wall are the ones who refuse to try at all. Players in this game will openly discuss their intention to feed "to get the game over faster", or that "we're only here for the EXP/glam". They'll scoff at and dismiss Commanders attempting to shotcall or people trying to arrange a pinch/flank. Some of them AFK, but many of them just feed instead or go on the doomed ventures I mentioned before. And these open declarations of bad teamwork are just tolerated, I assume, for subscription retention purposes. A summoner who doesn't know when to retreat or read the flow of battle can go 1-7-15 and deal 550k damage, taking 800k - this is fine effort, if not ideal performances. But when I see a Bard go 0-4-2 with a total damage dealt of 70k, this is not a skill issue anymore; this is refusal to participate.

This isn't the only map with those issues, to be clear. Shatter has a big problem with ice lickers who simply stand and wait around waiting for the safe ice to spawn, and when there is no safe/mid ice they make suicidal runs into enemy safe ices to feed. I've seen players on my team who spend the entire match in the safe ice pit. Many teams in Secure will ride around endlessly in a pesudo-hunt train, only attempting a desperate pinch on a leading enemy team when the game is already out of reach, then peeling off as if one mid fight will make up an 800 point deficit. But the objective spawn rate on Worqor 'legitimizes' this type of thinking. An enemy team can be sitting with a 1350-1200-900 lead and multiple people on your team will break off trying to steal an A-rank outside the enemy 900-point team's spawn rather than pinch lead team at a B-rank that is already contested between them and the other team, ignoring callouts and pleas to join the fight.

[aereniil]

Yeah, we can agree on this. My original post did not differentiate between players who are simply not good at the mode, and players who are intentionally playing poorly/refusing to play. The point I was trying to make was that even people who mainly queue for the rewards and aren't really interested in learning pvp-specific skills can still be a net positive to the team if they're willing to follow a group's gameplan. Extra bodies and extra firepower go a long way in a mode with a comparatively high time-to-kill. I have no problem with learning the ropes and having a poor k/d ratio in fights so long as someone is trying to improve. I certainly sported some awful statlines when learning the mode, but the difference is I was trying to be better.

The players that drive me up the wall are the ones who refuse to try at all. Players in this game will openly discuss their intention to feed "to get the game over faster", or that "we're only here for the EXP/glam". They'll scoff at and dismiss Commanders attempting to shotcall or people trying to arrange a pinch/flank. Some of them AFK, but many of them just feed instead or go on the doomed ventures I mentioned before. And these open declarations of bad teamwork are just tolerated, I assume, for subscription retention purposes. A summoner who doesn't know when to retreat or read the flow of battle can go 1-7-15 and deal 550k damage, taking 800k - this is fine effort, if not ideal performances. But when I see a Bard go 0-4-2 with a total damage dealt of 70k, this is not a skill issue anymore; this is refusal to participate.

This isn't the only map with those issues, to be clear. Shatter has a big problem with ice lickers who simply stand and wait around waiting for the safe ice to spawn, and when there is no safe/mid ice they make suicidal runs into enemy safe ices to feed. I've seen players on my team who spend the entire match in the safe ice pit. Many teams in Secure will ride around endlessly in a pesudo-hunt train, only attempting a desperate pinch on a leading enemy team when the game is already out of reach, then peeling off as if one mid fight will make up an 800 point deficit. But the objective spawn rate on Worqor 'legitimizes' this type of thinking. An enemy team can be sitting with a 1350-1200-900 lead and multiple people on your team will break off trying to steal an A-rank outside the enemy 900-point team's spawn rather than pinch lead team at a B-rank that is already contested between them and the other team, ignoring callouts and pleas to join the fight.

You pointed them right, those players that deserve more attention than supposedly "cheating premades" (and no problem, I got your point in the original post, sorry if I may have poorly let think the contrary).
And you summed up the new map's flaws perfectly !

[Commander_Justitia]

I feel this feedback is mostly very onesided and clear. So it should be easy to fix and take the correct steps like the community recommends it. There are different approaches with all the same goal.
If until next major patch there is no adjustment though, it would show how out of touch everything is...People still play, and have fun with the game, I hope these small adjustments won't take a year. Or this game is truly done.

[Sunhwapark]

As of today's update:

During Worqor Chirteh (Triumph) campaigns, triumphs will now appear more frequently near the center of the map.

We'll have to see if the change helps with anything.

[aereniil]

As of today's update:


We'll have to see if the change helps with anything.

I say there are less people spliting outside of the pit, but now there are more people and teams getting sandwiched over and over in the middle, so .... I'm divided on the total benefit of this update.

However, if they keep the idea of allowing 2 S ranks to spawn over the same period of time (maybe to force teams to adapt, shorten games, or make things "spicy", idk),
==> at least, they should make so that they don't spawn at opposite sides of the map or not so far away from each other (or only in the middle)
Otherwise, this map is too huge for this, there is a team that is deemed to get an easy claim that way (and not always the lowest ranking one), unless for the very rare and coincidental situation where every teams split at the same time.

[ChrysOCE]

Hasn't really made that much of a difference. Player behavior is still the same. Chasing nodes instead of fighting, then being shocked that they can't hold/fight back on nodes late game vs teams with better BH. Still far too much running. So many matches, I see 10+ people on uncontested triumphs. I can't wait for this map to come off daily rotation and have it's own separate day.

It still blows my mind that they supposedly designed this map to encourage pvp.

[aereniil]

Hasn't really made that much of a difference. Player behavior is still the same. Chasing nodes instead of fighting, then being shocked that they can't hold/fight back on nodes late game vs teams with better BH. Still far too much running. So many matches, I see 10+ people on uncontested triumphs. I can't wait for this map to come off daily rotation and have it's own separate day.

It still blows my mind that they supposedly designed this map to encourage pvp.

They really didn't address this behavorial issue (whether they even know about it), and now that the "hype" is down for me, I finally see how "Mario Kart"-like this map is in the negative sense (compared to other maps which are in fact more fun and not so bad than I thought, now xD). Also, after getting it for the ~900th time (over 1349 games), it's starting to annoy me xD (yay yay, "queue for the map you want" and so on, haha)

[ChrysOCE]

I feel like the biggest issue is just the map layout. It just feels off. SR and Onsal, you can pretty much run in a straight line to any engagement and then choose which side you want to engage from. Movement on those maps feels quicker. Sure, you might still miss the Onsal node but, more often than not, you can get anywhere and fight. Worqor, it feels like there are just too many environmental blocks that force you to run around. There is no real direct path to any edge engagement, if you are the far team.

NE hill node. If you are blue, unless you have an aggressive team, you will almost never see any 3-way fighting there. It takes too long to go red side to engage. If you go yellow side, you have to contend with any re-spawners.
SE caves. You will almost never see red pinch blue here, cause it takes too long to run through mid, up ramp and along the blue path to cave entrance. And you have to contend with any blue re-spawners that will be behind you.
SW platform is probably the easiest out of them, as yellow can pinch on blue and then escape over the cliffs to mid. But typically you will never see yellow engaging on the red side of that platform.

The only direct engagement is mid and, good luck with that, if you have a team that doesn't want to pvp but would rather stay outside and collect edge nodes.