Worqor Chirteh feedback

[Maldbeast]

This is solidly the worst map in frontline, despite some interesting design choices regarding weather and verticality. The combination of long travel times and quick objective spawns incentivizes people who dislike PvP and join only for EXP/season pass rewards to essentially play PvE fetch quest mingame instead of actually fighting.

Like it or not, many of the players who queue for these rewards are not interested in learning the type of skills required to be good at PvP (map awareness, repositioning without retreating, objective priority). Other maps solve this to varying levels of success - shatter and secure have mid objectives that will cause three teams to gravitate to a central location for enough time for teamfights to occur, onsal points are easy to deny causing engagements to become protracted, and seal rock points are reclaimable. Worqor's objectives are closest to Onsal's but simply driving an opponent back creates enough space for a quick claim. This failure to create a combat focus for the easily distracted allows people who have no interest in PvP (and they are quick to tell you if you try and call for a pinch) to justify embarking their hunt train halfway across the map to try and steal an A-rank near the enemy base, a doomed venture.

The proof is in the damage numbers, which are wretched compared to other modes. It's incredibly common to see games end with maybe one person in your entire alliance breaking the 1m damage mark. Anyone defending this mode, please tell me on what other map this happens routinely.

I know some premade groups and shotcallers who are having great success, but as a dedicated solo queuer who likes to fight (but not at the cost of winning, obviously), Worqor has been without a doubt, the consistently worst experience since Endwalker's PvP rework. To be clear, I don't mind losing. But if we're not even going to put up a fight, then the mode is wasting my time.

[NevaehQuest]

everyone is getting the same vibe;
'running around, few encounter and game ended before u know it.... '(but still....still good map)

[KBK]

Just played a worqor where not a single person got to a million damage. Average was around 300K. I have never seen that on other maps, ever.

It is beyond hilarious that square advertised this map as "promoting PVP play," when it is literally the exact opposite.

[Valence]

Indeed, on Worqor Chirteh, you’re way less likely to get those huge, long, epic mass brawls I love… but when they do happen on that map, it's an absolute adrenaline bliss. Such brawls on Seal Rock and Onsal can be fun too, sure, but the vibe just isn’t the same for me.

In big fights on Seal Rock/Onsal, I feel like there’s often less tension and less room for creativity, mostly because you don’t have as much freedom:

• to move around enemy groups (Seal Rock gives more options than Onsal at least)
• to successfully retreat when you’re getting sandwiched. On Worqor Chirteh, you don't only get the classic "pull back" : sometimes, if your team is smart enough, you can more easily exploit the multiple existing pathways to counter-ambush and even flip the attack (it's not often, but it happens)
• to physically break target lines while keeping vision. It’s always fun using rocks to block melee/ranged attacks while still being able to quickly counterattack.
• to pull off surprise jumps from incongruous angles. I love the verticality on Worqor Chirteh. It’s not ridiculously high like Borderland Ruins or (less so) Onsal, but it’s also not flat enough to make you feel uselessly too exposed or not take jump damage if you're too reckless.
• Also… Fields of Glory forcing you to periodically destroy crystals kinda (too) abruptly kills the flow of fights. It interrupts the momentum when things are getting spicy.
• Not having to interact with Fields of Triumph, and generally only needing one person inside each, makes taking/contesting objectives feel way more direct and action-focused than Onsal, Seal Rock (Seize), and even Borderland Ruins

Yeah that's why I was saying earlier in the thread that my initial impression was that the map layout has a lot of potential, but it's kneecapped by the way objectives are set and paced that literally work against it.

As for Auroras I wish I even saw them those days, most games are done in 10min or lower, and Auroras happen around the 10min mark. It barely starts that games are already over, often with a third team not even reaching 300 pts.

[aereniil]

Yeah that's why I was saying earlier in the thread that my initial impression was that the map layout has a lot of potential, but it's kneecapped by the way objectives are set and paced that literally work against it.

As for Auroras I wish I even saw them those days, most games are done in 10min or lower, and Auroras happen around the 10min mark. It barely starts that games are already over, often with a third team not even reaching 300 pts.

I get what you mean about Auroras, indeed. Proportionally, I rarely see them happen before the game ends too - at this point, I’ve seen them in no more than ~50 games out of 300. Then again, maybe this only applies to the few overaddicted people like me who only do Frontline in FFXIV for weeks, all day (4-25 games per day), just to be able to witness/enjoy more of them (even though I obviously don’t spam FL for the Auroras alone xD). That’s a pity, because when Auroras happen, the effects can be game-changing (and the visuals aren’t bad either, for PvP).

Just played a worqor where not a single person got to a million damage. Average was around 300K. I have never seen that on other maps, ever.

It is beyond hilarious that square advertised this map as "promoting PVP play," when it is literally the exact opposite.

Having played hundreds of games on this map, I can confirm that 1M damage does happen (I’ve sometimes gotten it myself too, while not even being the top damaging player). However, I admit it’s proportionally much rarer than on other maps. It’s even rarer to see more than 1 or 2 people deal that much damage (plus FL matchmaking is most of the time unremediably unbalanced and unfair).

Still, from all the end-of-match reports, I feel like people (even novices like me) get relatively more assists and easier opportunities on this map to contribute to the team than just through huge damage (again: abilities, individual strategies, status effects, and crowd control).

I wasn’t per se interested in watching the advertisements about “promoting PvP play” on this map, but maybe that’s what SE meant - or at least aimed for: more team cooperation, on the rare occasions people actually want it to happen in games, rather than heavier damage than on other maps (though I may be wrong about SE’s intentions).

It's just my opinion, but the best part of PvP (at least on FL) isn’t just about winning/losing or dealing huge damage/kills. Even games where my team stomped with a massive score lead can be boring (on any map), sometimes just as much - or even more - than getting crushed 500–1400 in a team that barely tried anything.

I’ve also had many losses that were among the most fun games, when my leading-score team had to fiercely fight 2v1 for minutes while enemies sneaked objectives behind: every team fought valiantly, we lost, but the fun and thrill were there (alleviating the eventual regrets).

[Connor]

Should’ve called it ‘Walklong Chirteh’ with how much of a walking/running sim it ends up being.

*canned laughter*

[aereniil]

Should’ve called it ‘Walklong Chirteh’ with how much of a walking/running sim it ends up being.

*canned laughter*

Haha nice one xD I get that people dislike running and walking, most of the running on this map is awfuly boring. This map is certainly too big. But when people make a surprisingly bold/smart move through this "running", then it is fun (like unexpectedly getting into the heart of enemy base from the other side of the map) and it fairly forces respect for the opponent or your team.

[SpritePR]

Just played a worqor where not a single person got to a million damage. Average was around 300K. I have never seen that on other maps, ever.

It is beyond hilarious that square advertised this map as "promoting PVP play," when it is literally the exact opposite.

Player Vs Pavement. I can see the confusion.

[aereniil]

Like it or not, many of the players who queue for these rewards are not interested in learning the type of skills required to be good at PvP (map awareness, repositioning without retreating, objective priority).

I get your point, and I won't criticize you, you totally get some right points.
But to those players " who queue for these rewards " and "are not interested in learning the type of skills required to be good at PvP ", I'd like to say :

It's not even about being good at PvP or the best.. Even though it's not true, let's assume I'm "not interested in learning the type of skills required to be good at PvE" and "only here for the rewards". I will come into your Party Finder's and Duty Finder's parties (for Extreme trials, Deep Dungeon parties, Field Operation parties, and even more casual group contents), and I will start to throw your games because I will show that I am :

- not motivated to learn about the abilities and skills of my job
- not motivated to learn or at least try to adapt throughout the duty (even as a first timer). It's not even about successfully improve during the game, just showing a lack of motivation
- not motivated to read or even build muscle memory over patterns of a game (PvP would have "have your map open", "avoid traps", "not chasing when too risky", "not camping uncontested nodes", "can I or can I not try to move there or around/ahead", and so many more or less little things that may make the difference)
- not motivated to even ask (I'd say in-duty but busy/grumpy people may not answer or will trash, so at least ask off-duty when you don't know). Similarly, if some players would even read or watch guides and videos about PvE duties, what blocks them to watch videos, guides, or even just the in-game PvP help infos about the modes, the way they are meant to be played, or at the very least how to play your own job(s) in PvP (even just the tooltips are a good start).

- moreover, if some (hopefully few) of these people don't feel any kind of remorse or discomfort about contributing to hinder the team's efforts, because they're just here to get the bonuses, no matter the result and because "there is no point in even trying", then it'll be a huge disrespect to everyone else and to those who want to try (plus, unlike PvE, there will always be a non-premature end to PvP duties, no 'abandon' after wipe, or at least in FL)
- if some people complain (rightly or wrongly) about not waiting for sprouts' cutscenes because it doesn't respect everyone's time, then would it be ok not to respect the same time and efforts in PvP ?
-not motivated up to the point where it affects the party/clear, or even it griefs (not considering when others are compensating)

==> If I do all of these, then you'll just leave, resent me, kick me, blacklist me, or even insult me if you can. It would be a nightmare to play for everyone else. So why wouldn't it also apply* in PvP ? (*Because FFXIV is not a game that is heavily focused on PvP content ? Is it a fair enough reason ?)

[ThreeBeastSmile]

[things, good things]

Got nothing to add to the current discourse, just wanted to swing by to say it's refreshing to see some clean 'n' unpretentious passion being expressed for the mode (or PvP values in general). Some more unvarnished takes can be a bit... too rough and jagged in the delivery. Wish there was more of it about, and I agree.