Be Patient Learning Dark Knight It's fun and rewarding.

[Brandr]

Who cares about a job quest from stormblood being the reason why we can't have a tank mitigation eariler.

Yeah I skip sometimes who cares,
(...)
Even further because we hold up the old we bar people from entering ff14, telling people you have to sit through 200 hours of MSQ to catch up to your friends or pay a extra 40$ is bad game design.

No is judging you, my dude.
And I actually agree with you that 200 hours is too much for any newcomer.

Story should not come before gameplay. Story shouldn't mean your job feels worse at early levels because "lore"

Sometimes.
While other jobs are really detached from MSQ and their own job quest, Dark Knight is very heavy on the lore and story section. The whole Heavenward expansion is a huge Dark Knight story. It's whole philosophy is based on the idea of fighting, judging and punishment evil people who will never face justice because they're the ones pulling the strings of society, and what happens in the end? We fight, judge and punish the leadership of Ishgard.

Summarizing, if it were any other job or skill, I'd agree with you, but TBN is so intricically connected to the job quest, I think it's insane to ask for TBN to be acquired earlier.

Maybe a weaker version of TBN would be cool.

[Derio]

A weaker version of TBN is ok. They can just reuse the shadowskin animation that they took away when they made rampart universal for tanks. The shield could be 10% of health.

Fixing PLD in early levels is another discussion.

[Terhix]

Let's take a step back a little here, as I've actually said they should likely hard nerf Raw Int, inside of AOE situations because it's just broken to the point it takes gameplay away from healers, No Job should have a benediction on a 25s CD that lasts three hits, even if it's only AOE.

Agreed, though I do think it's worth pointing out that Abyssal Drain is also a free bene (especially at lower level with how healing potency scales relative to max HP), just with a 1min cooldown, and DRK gets it at the same level WAR gets RI.

I think Warrior is actually bad for balance, my main point was if war (and pld) can have their short mits eariler I don't see the harm in other tanks having mits eariler, I would even say a nerfed version of TBN but that would be hard to implement with how it works currently.

It would have to be a heavily nerfed version of TBN given how weak (non-Holy) Sheltron is compared to TBN.

I do agree SE should have a look at how tanks play at lower levels, but that's a broader problem of just most if not all jobs having really weird progression at low levels. That's really out of the scope of whether DRK is somehow inherently worse than other tanks while leveling - it's not, except for Warrior, but all tanks are just worse than Warrior in dungeons once RI comes online.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

[...]but all tanks are just worse than Warrior in dungeons once RI comes online.

*something something* "Raw Intuition / Bloodwhetting would still be fine if it only triggered once per weaponskill because that's still a net 1200 / 2000 heal potency on top of some extra mitigation".

Equilibrium is considered based and everything for how much it heals on a 60s CD, Raw Int / BW would be virtually the same but on a shorter CD. It would also actually benefit from stacking the recovery bonuses of Rampart & Thrill of Battle for itself in dungeon packs.

[Terhix]

*something something* "Raw Intuition / Bloodwhetting would still be fine if it only triggered once per weaponskill because that's still a net 1200 / 2000 heal potency on top of some extra mitigation".

I'm pretty sure I'm on the record on these forums advocating for this exact change, so yes.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

I'm pretty sure I'm on the record on these forums advocating for this exact change, so yes.

Oh I meant no offense either way - just voiced my own opinion on the matter.

[Rithy255]

While other jobs are really detached from MSQ and their own job quest, Dark Knight is very heavy on the lore and story section. The whole Heavenward expansion is a huge Dark Knight story. It's whole philosophy is based on the idea of fighting, judging and punishment evil people who will never face justice because they're the ones pulling the strings of society, and what happens in the end? We fight, judge and punish the leadership of Ishgard.

Summarizing, if it were any other job or skill, I'd agree with you, but TBN is so intricically connected to the job quest, I think it's insane to ask for TBN to be acquired earlier.

Maybe a weaker version of TBN would be cool.

understandable that you would like TBN to be kept at 70 because you find it cool and its a part of the lore, I just don't think changing it would takeaway from the story anyway and I think gameplay is more important, sorry if my post came across and obnoxious I just wish it was a eariler skill.

My main concern about TBN being early but weaker is the simple fact that it can be seen as a downgrade if it becomes harder to POP due to MP being tied to TBN unlike other short mits that can be changed around. I don't think dark knight players want the risk factor to be took away, Im personally not bothered eitherway but its a very contentious topic.

Agreed, though I do think it's worth pointing out that Abyssal Drain is also a free bene (especially at lower level with how healing potency scales relative to max HP), just with a 1min cooldown, and DRK gets it at the same level WAR gets RI.



It would have to be a heavily nerfed version of TBN given how weak (non-Holy) Sheltron is compared to TBN.

I do agree SE should have a look at how tanks play at lower levels, but that's a broader problem of just most if not all jobs having really weird progression at low levels. That's really out of the scope of whether DRK is somehow inherently worse than other tanks while leveling - it's not, except for Warrior, but all tanks are just worse than Warrior in dungeons once RI comes online.

Yeah Tanks and other in jobs REALLY need to be looked at lower levels, Im sick of being synched to 50 and having half a job, a big portion of what I liked about the job is just not there.

I think two things need to happen with tanks Warrior's Sustain mostly in AOE needs to be more toned down, we need to considering switching where important skills such as short CD's go and some key rotational aspects Tanks being more inline with each other not inline with current warrior is objectively what should happen, I don't want Holy circle and Confiteor combo to aoe heal me on PLD that would just make tanking insanely boring on PLD.

[Brandr]

My main concern about TBN being early but weaker is the simple fact that it can be seen as a downgrade if it becomes harder to POP due to MP being tied to TBN unlike other short mits that can be changed around. I don't think dark knight players want the risk factor to be took away, Im personally not bothered eitherway but its a very contentious topic.

I should have made myself clearer about this point.

I meant a weaker version of TBN pre-lvl70, and true TBN at lvl70 job quest and beyond.

Btw, if you got time, try to New Game+ DRK's job quest. Even if you don't like stories, I'm sure you will have a blast!