My first 72 hours since being gone for two years...:(

[Ath192]

...There aren't. FFXI has quite literally never been popular. Every measurement of the population has always been INCREDIBLY low, -laughably- low even compared to titans of the industry like WoW, XIV, Runescape, etc... even if you use its peak for the comparison.

Note that I'm not even hating on XI, I had a good time playing it back in the ToAU days. If however you think it currently has a large playerbase or EVER did you are huffing some premium copium my man.

You do know it was Square Enix's most profitable game until XIV took the crown from it not too long ago correct?

I don't what popular means to you but it definitely was more popular than any other product square ever made besides this one.

[Selsix]

You do know it was Square Enix's most profitable game until XIV took the crown from it not too long ago correct?

I don't what popular means to you but it definitely was more popular than any other product square ever made besides this one.

I blatantly stated what I mean. In the context of MMOs, it was never a popular game. It has always had a very low population. The fact of whether it has been profitable or not is irrelevant. Obviously it has always been profitable or it wouldn't still be playable, they would have shut it down. Profitability has nothing to do with how popular it was/is compared to other MMOs.

[CCheshire]

While I agree ff14 is a tab targeting game and should remain that way and also raids are based on memorization.

It doesn't mean they can't make the jobs interesting to go along with that, I think the core issue this game suffers from is replay value, why would I wanna do something on a different job when jobs largely play the same and do the same thing? It's not like you maybe would wanna learn a fight and then do it again on a more challenging job like Black mage, because BLM is now summoner tiers level of easy.

Its also not like they can't shake up fights a little but more and add more different patterns that don't always appear to make fights less about just remembering, but also about adapting.

Its the things they do overtime, the small job changes over the course of time to slowly pander to people who ONLY care about the "DDR" aspect of the game while ignoring those who prefer Job design and a bit more nuance to things then just remembering patterns.

Typically, I play certain raids, dungeons, and mentor rous because I find it fun even if my fav job is casters then I will switch it up with alt jobs too if I'm bored. Also, I don't do solo DD, savage, current extremes because I find it boring and too stressful regardless of the job I am playing for them and like I like the overall FFXIV exp than individual job revamps and changes for each upcoming expansion. If SE does a job change that I disliked then I'm flexible enough to drop old jobs like I was sad when I lost StB AST and DRK, so I moved on to new or other jobs in ShB and now DT.

[Fawkes]

I blatantly stated what I mean. In the context of MMOs, it was never a popular game. It has always had a very low population. The fact of whether it has been profitable or not is irrelevant. Obviously it has always been profitable or it wouldn't still be playable, they would have shut it down. Profitability has nothing to do with how popular it was/is compared to other MMOs.

"Compared to other MMOs" I think you just mean WoW and know nothing about any other MMOs.

[Selsix]

"Compared to other MMOs" I think you just mean WoW and know nothing about any other MMOs.

Now compare these ancient population numbers when XI was at its peak to today's big players. Even ignoring WoW and just using the other top dogs it's abundantly clear that XI only ever had a small token population. The OP is claiming XI is some absurdly popular MMO and apparently has a steady population putting XIV to shame, that is blatantly false. It never even surpassed 1 million subscriptions. It was always niche and now is even more niche.

Hell, just comparing it to XIV alone despite the disaster that is Dawntrail shows it's an absurd lie that XI somehow has a stronger population.

[MicahZerrshia]

Now compare these ancient population numbers when XI was at its peak to today's big players. Even ignoring WoW and just using the other top dogs it's blatantly clear that XI only ever had a small token population. Using other small MMOs for comparison doesn't change that. The OP is claiming XI is some absurdly popular MMO and apparently has a steady population putting XIV to shame, that is blatantly false. It never even surpassed 1 million subscriptions. It was always niche and now is even more niche.

It doesn't matter about actual numbers which were not nearly as small as you imply, the player base is more dedicated than almost any other mmo. If you actually were around in the ToAU days you would have seen just how busy the game was. It was never laughably low in population until around the Abyssea release, when they undid all the hard work ppl have put in (my conspiracy theory was they did this to rush ppl thru XI and usher them into XIV, but then 1.0 happened) causing a lot of players to rage quit. It never hit 20 million players like WoW but it def wasn't hurting for players by any means. In fact RotZ was supposed to be the end of the game but it was so popular they released 5 more expansions and 3 mini dlc and the VR mini story. SE wouldn't have done that if the population was laughably small. You say you are not hating on FFXI and that ppl are huffing copium, but either your memory is flawed or you are just one of the many who want to cry about how bad XI was/is but never actually played long enough to understand it or even touched it at all. Hating on XI seems to be sport for a lot of XIV players who have never touched it but claim to be vets for some reason. The FFXIV team would likely love to have players as dedicated as XI's who actually play the game instead of standing in towns or at clubs showing off their mods.

And XI is in the midst of a resurgence currently, even having to lock servers due to such high numbers, something it never did even at it's peak. Fujito also just announced a bunch of plans and features they are currently working on for the future of the game and they are all absolutely fantastic and seems to be drawing even more ppl back to the game. I wouldn't be surprised of the XI and XIV population numbers are starting to even out with XIV having it's own Abyssea moment in the form of DT. The FFXI devs are just as dedicated and love that game, which is something XIV is lacking.

[Selsix]

It doesn't matter about actual numbers which were not nearly as small as you imply, the player base is more dedicated than almost any other mmo. If you actually were around in the ToAU days you would have seen just how busy the game was. It was never laughably low in population until around the Abyssea release, when they undid all the hard work ppl have put in (my conspiracy theory was they did this to rush ppl thru XI and usher them into XIV, but then 1.0 happened) causing a lot of players to rage quit. It never hit 20 million players like WoW but it def wasn't hurting for players by any means. In fact RotZ was supposed to be the end of the game but it was so popular they released 5 more expansions and 3 mini dlc and the VR mini story. SE wouldn't have done that if the population was laughably small. You say you are not hating on FFXI and that ppl are huffing copium, but either your memory is flawed or you are just one of the many who want to cry about how bad XI was/is but never actually played long enough to understand it or even touched it at all. Hating on XI seems to be sport for a lot of XIV players who have never touched it for some reason. The FFXIV team would likely love to have players as dedicated as XI's who actually play the game instead of standing in towns or at clubs showing off their mods.

And XI is in the midst of a resurgence currently, even having to lock servers due to such high numbers, something it never did even at it's peak. Fujito also just announced a bunch of plans and features they are currently working on for the future of the game and they are all absolutely fantastic and seems to be drawing even more ppl back to the game. The FFXI devs are just as dedicated and love that game, which is something XIV is lacking.

I never claimed it was hurting for numbers. I claimed it was niche and never hit high popularity, which is accurate. I also never even once claimed XI was bad and even said I had a good time playing it for a couple years back in the ToAU days. I have FOND memories of XI and wish it and the current community all the best. I am merely rejecting the notion that OP is implying, which is that XI has a sizable population compared to XIV. It doesn't. It factually does not. It never did unless you're looking at XIV 1.0 specifically which is essentially a different game.

If you want to draw comparisons between XI and XIV for what each game does right and wrong or which playerbase is more dedicated or largely more satisfied, that's an entirely different animal and I would have my own input on that for things XI does right that XIV does wrong. I am simply refuting that we should be looking at XI for raw population numbers as a "grass is greener" scenario, as it never had a large population even compared to the current state of XIV when it's at a low point.

[MicahZerrshia]

I never claimed it was hurting for numbers. I claimed it was niche and never hit high popularity, which is accurate.

But the thing is, we don't have raw numbers. SE has never given us raw numbers for XI or XIV. But the game was not "laughably low" or as unpopular as you put it earlier lol. And it was quite popular, just not WoW popular. If you were part of mmo groups and forums back in the day, XI was talked about just as often as XIV currently is, albeit more positively than XIV currently is. They even talked about it on G4 and various early gaming sites quite a lot, which is how I learned about it in the first place. The only niche part about it was the fact it was Japanese, because it was a blatent EQ rip off, SE even admits that openly.

[SyferU]

I feel that FFXIV has become nothing more than a theme park MMO built on Dark Souls-style gameplay

I don't even know if this is bait or not. What do people even think Dark Souls plays like when they say stuff like that?

[Ath192]

I never claimed it was hurting for numbers. I claimed it was niche and never hit high popularity, which is accurate. I also never even once claimed XI was bad and even said I had a good time playing it for a couple years back in the ToAU days. I have FOND memories of XI and wish it and the current community all the best. I am merely rejecting the notion that OP is implying, which is that XI has a sizable population compared to XIV. It doesn't. It factually does not. It never did unless you're looking at XIV 1.0 specifically which is essentially a different game.

If you want to draw comparisons between XI and XIV for what each game does right and wrong or which playerbase is more dedicated or largely more satisfied, that's an entirely different animal and I would have my own input on that for things XI does right that XIV does wrong. I am simply refuting that we should be looking at XI for raw population numbers as a "grass is greener" scenario, as it never had a large population even compared to the current state of XIV when it's at a low point.

Everyone proved you wrong and now you are just dying on this hill. Anyways enjoy justifying incorrect information. Noone is buying it. But hey, you didn't admit you were wrong and learned anything from it, what a win! If it makes you feel better 99% of the internet does this so you are not alone.