Lets have class only abilities and spells

[Soukyuu]

They should just decide what they want to keep. It's either jobs or classes.
The "class for solo, job for party"-idea is a failure, I don't see anyone using classes at all because jobs give you a bigger advantage even solo.

[Katella_Avenlea]

They should just decide what they want to keep. It's either jobs or classes.
The "class for solo, job for party"-idea is a failure, I don't see anyone using classes at all because jobs give you a bigger advantage even solo.

Don't think I agree with you at all on this point. When I solo I generally go back to classes. I've even been in parties where a few of the members have stayed on a class just to give a bit more survivability and help support the party. Not sure why a few keep asking for it to be "either / or" situation. Having both available is perfectly fine.

If you don't use the classes, that's fine, but just because you can't "see" something's use, doesn't mean others don't.

[Soukyuu]

Don't think I agree with you at all on this point. When I solo I generally go back to classes. I've even been in parties where a few of the members have stayed on a class just to give a bit more survivability and help support the party. Not sure why a few keep asking for it to be "either / or" situation. Having both available is perfectly fine.

There is really no need for a class in a party if you're not going to a spot suited for your level (=gaining optimal exp/hour), one/two WHM are perfectly fine.

The only case where you'd need classes is when you wipe, or if you want to use other classes skills, chameleon on whm for example. I wish they'd just improved the class system, making the "job" skills class exclusive without locking you out of half of armory.

[rwyan]

While I like the addition of iconic FF jobs, I feel like the whole class/job system is hacked together. I doesn't have to be that way, but I think the issue lies in faults with the armory system as a whole.

Originally, classes were intended to be skills - no different than the skills in Ultima Online or the weapon/magic skills in FFXI. It seems like the idea was that players would invest time and effort into skills - learning a variety of abilities. These abilities could then be mixed and matched to create your "job" or your "role". I think the original design was so ambiguous (are they skills? are they classes? or both? ) and the underlying logic complex that it obviously needed a revamp. While it functioned, it just didn't work.

Right now, the whole relationship between jobs and classes is just so odd in concept and functionality. They really need to tighten up the system - both conceptually and functionally.

Solution #1 - Jobs are too dependent on Classes. Most jobs should be able to use multiple weapons. For example, Paladin should be able to equip Lances, Swords and Axes.

This would further the Armory systems original intent... allowing players to adjust on the fly to meet the current needs of their party and situation. For example, if two lancers join a raid party (Lancer being both their only level 50 class). One lancer could equip the Paladin job stone while the other could equip the Dragoon job stone. The Lancer/Paladin is now better able to tank as opposed to Lancer and especially Dragoon/Lancer.

This would also allow the developers to add Jobs and Classes independently from each other. So long as a class is compatible with an already existing job, no additional job is required. And vice verse, the developers can add an additional job without needing to design a class to go with it. For example, the Thief job can be added as it could conceptually be compatible with Gladiator, Pugilist and Archer classes. The Musketeer class can be added assuming it could job at least Bard.

Solution #2 - Get rid of classes all together and keep jobs. Players would change jobs as they do now - via job stones. The armory system can still exist in some fashion. Equipping a different weapon will enhance a job's role in some way. For example, if a Paladin needed extra dps - he would equip a lance as opposed to a sword/shield. If he wanted some aoe capability, he would equip an axe. For mages, the various wands/scepters/staves/rods would innately impact various aspects of a spell. For example, using a wand may increases range and overall accuracy whereas a staff increases the accuracy and potency of enfeebling effects. Or maybe the weapon affects the combo action?

Once again, the developers would be free to add weapons and jobs independently from each other.

[Halvaard_Vidan]

I don't see anyone using classes at all because jobs give you a bigger advantage even solo.

Try soloing as Bard, then switch to Archer, it's significantly easier.
Assuming you have Bloodbath, Cure, Protect, Stoneskin...

[Soukyuu]

Try soloing as Bard, then switch to Archer, it's significantly easier.
Assuming you have Bloodbath, Cure, Protect, Stoneskin...

I can't really say much about bard because I don't play this class beyond tryign to bring it to lv50.

All I can say is, I don't really miss PGL after switching to MNK. The damage you will be dealing with additional combos reduces the damage you take because well, you kill mobs faster. Not saying it will completely balance it out, but the difference isn't much unless you try to tank many mobs at the same time which you shouldn't do when you solo (unless you're WAR... damn killing machines)

[Denmo]

I can't really say much about bard because I don't play this class beyond tryign to bring it to lv50.

All I can say is, I don't really miss PGL after switching to MNK. The damage you will be dealing with additional combos reduces the damage you take because well, you kill mobs faster. Not saying it will completely balance it out, but the difference isn't much unless you try to tank many mobs at the same time which you shouldn't do when you solo (unless you're WAR... damn killing machines)

You're basing your entire opinion of "Job = Better at everything" only by how Monk plays?

Wait a second. It could be just me, but does everyone in this topic arguing against classes play mostly MNK, WAR, and/or DRG?

because that'd make sense.

[SionDurant]

They should just decide what they want to keep. It's either jobs or classes.
The "class for solo, job for party"-idea is a failure, I don't see anyone using classes at all because jobs give you a bigger advantage even solo.

Not sure you even play XIV. Plenty of classes give higher advantages than Jobs. Ask any PLD, MRD, THM who actually experience this game every day.

You're right about one thing, the idea is a failure, should just be that a job works in either case. It's supposed to be a heroic embodiment in the FF verse.

[Soukyuu]

You're basing your entire opinion of "Job = Better at everything" only by how Monk plays?

And WHM. About the only thing I miss as WHM is Chameleon.

I don't see anything wrong with my point, because I'm merely stating how it looks like from my perspective - from the classes that I play. You state yours. Nothing wrong with that.

Not sure you even play XIV.

Sure I do. We partied at raptors some days ago. And I'm in one of the LS you are in, too. I'm just quiet.

Plenty of classes give higher advantages than Jobs. Ask any PLD, MRD, THM who actually experience this game every day.

MRD/THM surely experience the game every day. PLD not so much (maybe GLA), just like MNK and DRG, courtesy of our great community mostly stacking THM/BLM.

I don't see THM needing many cross class skills since they're so squishy. Sure, you can use second wind and cure + SS, but if you draw hate, it won't save you. By the time you finish casting cure/SS, not counting a big chance you get interrupted, you'll lose more HP for it to make a big difference. About the only thing that really saves you is chameleon, but you get that with BLM too, and BLM also gets convert, that potentially gives you a second HP bar...

GLA has an advantage over PLD because you get access to MRD skills, but that's because PLD needs adjustments badly, so you can't really bring that argument.

MRD? Not sure. WARs don't seem to have any problems surviving.

You're right about one thing, the idea is a failure, should just be that a job works in either case. It's supposed to be a heroic embodiment in the FF verse.

Well at least we agree that it's a failure.

To everyone making a case for CNJ cross skills, do you keep in mind that CNJ's versions are much more potent than what you get cross class? SS loses about a third (if not half, don't remember) of it's protection and you don't get Cura cross class either.

[Jinko]

I don't see anything wrong with my point, because I'm merely stating how it looks like from my perspective - from the classes that I play. You state yours. Nothing wrong with that.

This, people on here seem to get so offended that other people think differently to them.

Just accept that people have different opinions guys and leave it at that, you don't have to argue this stuff into the ground.