Fields of Glory (Shatter) needs a massive redesign

[Destati]

Ever since their reworks, Shatter and Secure are absolute slogfests. Those modes feel like they take forever. It's so bad, that at this point I just skip playing FL on those days.

[SalamanderIX]

They improved Secure. It's just the same map with new gimmicks, they added more points to it so it doesn't time out. It's not a great mode but they did improve it compared to what it was before.
The best thing about the new Secure, is you only have to play Shatter one out of four days, instead of one out of three.

Shatter they destroyed, It was a bad map that they made worse, then made even more worse... it's subjective of course, but it got worse for me. I'll count the ways.
They got rid of the randomly spawning Ice, so there's always a set path.
They made the three big ices easily accessible by one team and not the others, meaning two teams always get one free with little chance of contest.
They got rid of the randomly spawning small ice, so there's no skirmishes that can occur around the map.
And they got rid of the home point capture, removing the objective to ever invade.
Annnnd they made it Symmetrical, so that it's always the same game all the time.

I'd revert it. At least the old map had some personality. Otherwise,. At least we get a new frontline in 7.4 meaning Shatter will be one out of five days.

[SicariusSeven]

Shatter has been complained about since the release of the rework. Same with Secure, but not as badly as Shatter has been.

The only hope we can have is that the new Frontlines map contains zero PvE elements that'll give players an excuse to not have to participate in PvP while avoiding being reported for AFKing. That way we have two decent maps for actual PvP content, the other being Onsal. Seize can be better, but the map needs to be retooled for better node placement and balance.

I've been saying this before but there needs to be a Frontline map that is just ONE HUGE arena. Just let us have a massive braw! No holds bar! Just a pure chaotic slugfest!

[Jeeqbit]

Shatter has been complained about since the release of the rework. Same with Secure, but not as badly as Shatter has been.

The only hope we can have is that the new Frontlines map contains zero PvE elements that'll give players an excuse to not have to participate in PvP while avoiding being reported for AFKing. That way we have two decent maps for actual PvP content, the other being Onsal. Seize can be better, but the map needs to be retooled for better node placement and balance.

I mean, I love direct PvP. I loved Feast, because it was one of the closest things to actual PvP we've ever had. Crystalline Conflict mostly amounts to the same thing as Feast, at least. Both have objectives but they are aimed at getting you to attack eachother 100% of the time.

But Frontline is not direct PvP. It has never been. If you try to direct PvP and tunnel vision into fighting an enemy player, your team abandons you all the time for the objective, leaving you to get destroyed. Because it's objective-based. If you want direct PvP, at the end of the day, CC is the intended game mode for that, not Frontline.

I stopped doing CC to focus on Frontline achievements each series. And I have come to enjoy it and doing the objective. You just have to learn how to avoid tunneling into duels with enemy players so your team doesn't abandon you. Once you get the hang of fleeing to the objective with your team asap, and watching for new objectives to pop up, it's more fun. It just isn't fun at first when you're not used to it and get mobbed.

[MsQi]

Go back to the original.

[TofuLove]

This thread is probably misplaced and should be in a PvP section.
There are multiple people there who dislike shatter. In general the overall feedback from regular pvp players has been somewhat mixed. Some love it, some hate it...

Saying that I enjoy shatter - why?

It's probably on of the best maps when played in an organised qsync event or when there are multiple coordinated teams on every side. It makes engagements and position and objectives less obvious. It's quite fun.
I still prefer the endwalker version of it with smalls popping at random intervals as it encouraged fighting on the cliffs better, but alas it's not in a bad spot right now.
Problem with it continues to be bad players who think ice is end all and should be prioritised over everything. I see it too often.

[Valence]

The main problem I have with the devs in frontline is how schizophrenic their design process is.

On one hand, they want Frontline to be that massive, popular pvp mode that funnels every player profile ever and is open and accessible to the biggest amount of people possible.

On the other hand, they keep designing maps like they're designing them for actual coordinated esport: Borderlands is the absolute epitome of this, as the map has 3 main avenues around which objectives have to be played and playing them all would require splitting alliances properly and organizing and balancing reinforcements constantly between those avenues (with one of them, middle, only occasionally being open, which means redirecting players regularly to go mid on top of it), and this is way beyond what you can expect from random solo queue, and that's without even mentioning that 90% of those players are casuals or people just uninterested into the mode. It's exactly like Rival Wings, nobody but the actual aficionados of the map actually understand how it works and how to play it.

Like for real, if you goal is to design for a mode that should be as inclusive as possible, stop designing complicated maps and just do Onsal. Or if the goal is to design for a mode with complex or intricate mechanics, then stop including the mode into a daily xp roulette. You can't have your cake and eat it.

I mean, I love direct PvP. I loved Feast, because it was one of the closest things to actual PvP we've ever had. Crystalline Conflict mostly amounts to the same thing as Feast, at least. Both have objectives but they are aimed at getting you to attack eachother 100% of the time.

But Frontline is not direct PvP. It has never been. If you try to direct PvP and tunnel vision into fighting an enemy player, your team abandons you all the time for the objective, leaving you to get destroyed. Because it's objective-based. If you want direct PvP, at the end of the day, CC is the intended game mode for that, not Frontline.

I stopped doing CC to focus on Frontline achievements each series. And I have come to enjoy it and doing the objective. You just have to learn how to avoid tunneling into duels with enemy players so your team doesn't abandon you. Once you get the hang of fleeing to the objective with your team asap, and watching for new objectives to pop up, it's more fun. It just isn't fun at first when you're not used to it and get mobbed.

People aren't mad about the mode being objective based - capture the flag, king of the hill, etc are all popular pvp modes as old as video gaming. People are mad about the objectives being pve and specifically short-cutting the actual pvp to accomplish them.

Nobody is complaining about the objectives in Seal Rock or Onsal.

[SicariusSeven]

Go back to the original.

I miss battling on the death bridges. Seeing a MCH or MNK, you knew they were just there to toss people off.

[PvpRaiden]

Yeah, the map definitely needs a redesign. If they really want to keep the PvE mechanics, they should work more like the ones in Secure — where you actually get something meaningful for doing them, not just points.

Right now, the PvE mechanics feel too disconnected from PvP. Half the time you’re just standing around doing nothing, licking ice instead of fighting. And if you actually try to engage in PvP, you usually get punished for it in an akward way — unless you’re doing a cliff or ramp strat, which can go either really well or really bad. Like the op mentioned, if you try hitting the winning team your prone to either being pinched by 3rd/2nd because there isnt a more easier option to engage if they don't know to ramp or cliff dive.

Overall, There needs to be more incentive to actually fight players instead of just queueing into Frontlines to PvE. But this is just my opinion, I Know different dcs and regions play this differnetly too.

[MsMisato]

Ever since their reworks, Shatter and Secure are absolute slogfests. Those modes feel like they take forever. It's so bad, that at this point I just skip playing FL on those days.

i think shatter needs the points adjusted to be lower to end the match faster. but still i remember original shatter, you could easily yeet people off the ice bridges to their death because it was super high XD