"You pull, you tank" is a bad mentality

[Supersnow845]

Maybe ettiquette on NA is "GOTTA GO FAST", but that doesn't make it universal for the game. Just because you CAN do it, doesn't mean you are automatically in the right to do it.
I think you're just looking for reasons to be angry at tanks, probably because you're miserable as a healer.

Which as I said a person pulling isn’t automatically in the right for pulling, a person deciding to be petty against them for little more than a slight against their own perceived sense of etiquette is in the wrong. You forfeit any claim to being in the right when you can’t even articulate what the other person did wrong other than just saying that it offends a collective sense of etiquette (that isn’t very collective anyway). Pulling as another player in the modern game has functionally zero downsides and a host of upsides, if you’d rather cling to weird traditional etiquette I’d ask why you aren’t playing all your classes like their HW incarnation considering that was the last time pulling as a DPS generated significant downsides

My annoyance at tank strength has nothing to do with YPYT, it’s just hilarious to me that in the last 6 pages the best justification for YPYT has been “tradition”, “AI slop” and “well if BOTH EU and JP do MPK it must be okay”

[Crafoutis]

If that's a thing on Warframe then alright, more power to them.

Yeah that's my point. Anyone with this mentality that anyone should pull anything at any time is playing the wrong game/genre. SnuperSow specifically is probably playing the wrong game, given their clear discontent with everything from their class identity to common dungeon etiquette.

[Supersnow845]

Yeah that's my point. Anyone with this mentality that anyone should pull anything at any time is playing the wrong game/genre. SnuperSow specifically is probably playing the wrong game, given their clear discontent with everything from their class identity to common dungeon etiquette.

Wouldn’t you know that I’d actually be fine with tanks being the designated pullers if anyone pulling didn’t lead to measurable upsides and zero downsides. It’s like they made dungeons not care about the holy trinity then wonder why people don’t treat dungeons like a game with an actual holy trinity treats dungeons. Shocker isn’t it, things lead to unintended side effects when your only concern is pretending the trinity is meaningless. Why would you want to hold onto meaningless “etiquette” born of the way a game with an actual holy trinity interacts with dungeons when this game refuses to even pretend like it has a holy trinity

But yeah I guess if 14 before ShB is another genre then I should be playing another genre because I’ve never wanted anything else than this game to actually pretend the trinity is a real thing again

[TBerry]

Which as I said a person pulling isn’t automatically in the right for pulling, a person deciding to be petty against them for little more than a slight against their own perceived sense of etiquette is in the wrong. You forfeit any claim to being in the right when you can’t even articulate what the other person did wrong other than just saying that it offends a collective sense of etiquette (that isn’t very collective anyway). Pulling as another player in the modern game has functionally zero downsides and a host of upsides, if you’d rather cling to weird traditional etiquette I’d ask why you aren’t playing all your classes like their HW incarnation considering that was the last time pulling as a DPS generated significant downsides

My annoyance at tank strength has nothing to do with YPYT, it’s just hilarious to me that in the last 6 pages the best justification for YPYT has been “tradition”, “AI slop” and “well if BOTH EU and JP do MPK it must be okay”

I never said anything about justifying YPYT I said on EU players just adhere to the tank pulling because it's agreed upon and the most peaceful solution of teamplay and, I don't know if you heqard about it, but being social, and not being an egomanic for trying to justify antisocial behaviour.

[Crafoutis]

Wouldn’t you know that I’d actually be fine with tanks being the designated pullers if anyone pulling didn’t lead to measurable upsides and zero downsides. It’s like they made dungeons not care about the holy trinity then wonder why people don’t treat dungeons like a game with an actual holy trinity treats dungeons. Shocker isn’t it, things lead to unintended side effects when your only concern is pretending the trinity is meaningless. Why would you want to hold onto meaningless “etiquette” born of the way a game with an actual holy trinity interacts with dungeons when this game refuses to even pretend like it has a holy trinity

But yeah I guess if 14 before ShB is another genre then I should be playing another genre because I’ve never wanted anything else than this game to actually pretend the trinity is a real thing again

Be the change you want to see in the world via action rather than yapping.

If you want this game to be like this, at least act like it and support tanks being the designated pullers in behavior, if not mechanically (in your opinion).

[Supersnow845]

I never said anything about justifying YPYT I said on EU players just adhere to the tank pulling because it's agreed upon and the most peaceful solution and teamplay and, I don't know if you heqard about it, but being social and not an egomanic for trying to justify antisocial behaviour.

Yet here you are trying to justify petty revenge and letting people die for having the gall to not follow the tanks sense of etiquette.

Notice how (and look through all my comments) I have never said that I MYSELF pull ahead of the tank. Because by default I don’t. I ask the tank, I encourage them and I attempt to help them. Will I pull an extra stray mob they might have missed; yes; will I pull an entire extra pack the tank doesn’t; no. Yet here you are painting me as an antisocial egomaniac because I’m pointing out all this weird logic from the last 7 pages you and the other 2 people have been spouting can be flipped right round to the same effect but none of you see that because you are starting from your own circular point of “the tank must be right therefore the tank is right”.

Be the change you want to see in the world via action rather than yapping.

If you want this game to be like this, at least act like it and support tanks being the designated pullers in behavior, if not mechanically (in your opinion).

Funny how; as I said above; I don’t actually pull ahead, I’m already “being the change I want to see in the world” but yall are so blind to how hypocritical your own logic is that when I flip it around from the DPS perspective suddenly I’m a antisocial egomaniac who needs to play a different genre

And what do you know me “being the change I want to see in the world” has lead to the trinity being watered down more and more, maybe I should pull ahead so tanks can realise they are also expendable then maybe they will ask for some semblance of the trinity back

[TBerry]

Wouldn’t you know that I’d actually be fine with tanks being the designated pullers if anyone pulling didn’t lead to measurable upsides and zero downsides. It’s like they made dungeons not care about the holy trinity then wonder why people don’t treat dungeons like a game with an actual holy trinity treats dungeons. Shocker isn’t it, things lead to unintended side effects when your only concern is pretending the trinity is meaningless. Why would you want to hold onto meaningless “etiquette” born of the way a game with an actual holy trinity interacts with dungeons when this game refuses to even pretend like it has a holy trinity

But yeah I guess if 14 before ShB is another genre then I should be playing another genre because I’ve never wanted anything else than this game to actually pretend the trinity is a real thing again

That's the thing, people DO treat it like the trinity. Even if it's not mechanically supported.
Hence dungeon etiquette. It's called immersion.

[Crafoutis]

I ask the tank, I encourage them and I attempt to help them.

There's where your ego is getting you: you assume just as a matter of fact that they need help if they're not wall-to-walling, when it could very well just be how they prefer to play.

[Supersnow845]

That's the thing, peopel DO treat it like the trinity. Even if it's not mechanically supported.
Hence dungeon etiquette. It's called immersion.

So now we should be supporting people’s illusion of the trinity when the game doesn’t even support it mechanically?

Can you support my “illusion of the trinity” by not healing yourself as a tank when I’m the healer (asking for a friend)

There's where your ego is getting you: you assume just as a matter of fact that they need help if they're not wall-to-walling, when it could very well just be how they prefer to play.

I just told you I don’t “encourage” them by pulling more for them, I ask them if there is a reason they may not be comfortable and if they don’t want to be encouraged I leave it at that. Oooh ahhhh, so hard to actually do what you keep telling me I apparently can’t do

And that just circles back to the earlier point anyway. If they just want to play like that, and someone else just wants to play W2W then why is the tank automatically in the right as per your logic

[TBerry]

Yet here you are trying to justify petty revenge and letting people die for having the gall to not follow the tanks sense of etiquette.

Notice how (and look through all my comments) I have never said that I MYSELF pull ahead of the tank. Because by default I don’t. I ask the tank, I encourage them and I attempt to help them. Will I pull an extra stray mob they might have missed; yes; will I pull an entire extra pack the tank doesn’t; no. Yet here you are painting me as an antisocial egomaniac because I’m pointing out all this weird logic from the last 7 pages you and the other 2 people have been spouting can be flipped right round to the same effect but none of you see that because you are starting from your own circular point of “the tank must be right therefore the tank is right”.

It's not just the tank it's the whole party. And it can happen, but it's just as much the fault of the DPS as it is the tank's.I'm fairly certain most tanks will just get pissy, and a vote of dismissal is more likely. Also no one dies, just damage. I never did YPYT as tank, but I also don't pull as a DPS. Because that's how we do it.

So now we should be supporting people’s illusion of the trinity when the game doesn’t even support it mechanically?

Can you support my “illusion of the trinity” by not healing yourself as a tank when I’m the healer (asking for a friend)

And there it is. Your ulterior motive and the root of your problem with tanks.
Because you are not the sole lifesaver and star of the party.

You can harp on about YPYT (it IS reportable), but we all know it's not about that. The thread has never been. You want to use it as a leverage to coerce and punish people. And OP probably pushed their luck and got kicked.
And you try to justify because it's not a mechanic, because clearly you don't understand the meaning of "community".

And people wonder why NA is so toxic and no one actually wants to play with others.

It kind of reminds me of the the "arguments" griefers use in PvP MMOs when they zerg and spawncamp noobs.
"The game doesn't prevent it, so I can do it."