"You pull, you tank" is a bad mentality

[Supersnow845]

It doesn't even have 2 /3 of the context. What did bro say in the report itself? Neither of us know what actually happened. So you can only go off an assumption, which can be literally anything we'd want it to be. And what was the date?

There's been a few TOS tweaks the last several years. And even a large overhaul of the TOS and punishment system after an incident with Party Finder occurred in Shadowbringers.

This is by definition, disingenuous, man.

Let’s say that the TOS has changed since this was done and now explicitly forbids what was done here to give the response of you being allowed to kick for differences in playstyle (which we have no evidence that it has changed and thus isn’t still the default)

You still haven’t explained in any way shape or form how the part of the TOS you are quoting is meant to be enforced because as I’ve told you like 5 times it invalidates itself by allowing it to apply to both sides

If the tank actually, visibly says something along the lines of whatever can be interpreted, clearly, as YPYT mentality, which is harassment against others, then the tank is complying completely within the TOS to pull slowly, if that is their wish, and they are perfectly fine to say "no" if they are asked to pull faster. Saying no is not harassment. And kicking them for anything which is clearly defined by the Reasons For Dismissal, would constitute harassment against the tank.

In this comment you said that not acknowledging the tanks request to pull small would be considered harassment against the tank. But you have completely ignored that if another player wants to pull faster then under the SAME TOS area the tank pulling slowly against the other players wishes would be harassment against the other player

So it returns to the problem of this piece of TOS is unenforceable because if two people disagree on a playstyle that affects everyone by default someone is not going to get their way which if the letter of the TOS is followed indicates that that person has grounds to report. That’s why square says that difference in playstyle is a valid reason to kick

[BlisteringFrost]

Let’s say that the TOS has changed since this was done and now explicitly forbids what was done here to give the response of you being allowed to kick for differences in playstyle (which we have no evidence that it has changed and thus isn’t still the default)

You still haven’t explained in any way shape or form how the part of the TOS you are quoting is meant to be enforced because as I’ve told you like 5 times it invalidates itself by allowing it to apply to both sides




In this comment you said that not acknowledging the tanks request to pull small would be considered harassment against the tank. But you have completely ignored that if another player wants to pull faster then under the SAME TOS area the tank pulling slowly against the other players wishes would be harassment against the other player

So it returns to the problem of this piece of TOS is unenforceable because if two people disagree on a playstyle that affects everyone by default someone is not going to get their way which if the letter of the TOS is followed indicates that that person has grounds to report. That’s why square says that difference in playstyle is a valid reason to kick

The person in question asked a yes / no question and got a no. Just because you dislike the answer to a question you asked doesn't make it harassment. Within reason, of course.

[Supersnow845]

The person in question asked a yes / no question and got a no. Just because you dislike the answer to a question you asked doesn't make it harassment. Within reason, of course.

So if the DPS asked first (which implicitly they did by pulling) then the tank not liking their “no” would thereby not be considered harassment putting the DPS in the right?

See how this logic makes just as much sense when it’s flipped around? This just shows that as I said the TOS is unenforceable when this situation can be applied to either of parties

[BlisteringFrost]

So if the DPS asked first (which implicitly they did by pulling) then the tank not liking their “no” would thereby not be considered harassment putting the DPS in the right?

See how this logic makes just as much sense when it’s flipped around? This just shows that as I said the TOS is unenforceable when this situation can be applied to either of parties

The first problem is the scenario isn't realistic to begin with. Just an idealized example.

[Supersnow845]

The first problem is the scenario isn't realistic to begin with. Just an idealized example.

Then if you can come up with a realistic scenario where the tank could invoke this section of the TOS against another player for things related to pulling but the argument can’t just be flipped around to say the tank wasn’t respecting the other player as well then please be my guest

[Lord_Umbra]

This thread is basically why we'll never see regions opened to each other JP is very much YTYP Tank = King attitude that in content often see Tanks/healers sit back & let DPS get beat into Oblivion by mobs/bosses for pulling first & mostly only provoke if another player rips aggro since not that players fault that other person pulled & often you'll see DPS puller get vote kicked from content.
If the Tank was one pack we're one packing if they want two packs we're two packing & if want wall to wall we're wall to walling it's always Tanks pace here & those who don't play by that tend to not last long on JP servers, like F some times we might have situations in Alliance sit there for 1-5 minutes because B maybe doesn't want to MT & other two maybe don't either or pay attention so we actually tend to wait outside of CT series very rare see DPS pull.

[Yeonhee]

Google is such an incredible tool.

You pretty much shot yourself in the foot, here. A DPS pulling is no problem for the party unless both the healer and the tank are absolutely garbage at their role. A tank refusing to do his job because of sheer ego however IS a direct detriment to the party.

As a side note, I will have to agree with Supersnow here that using an AI telling you to add glue to your pizza isn't really something I would use as a reference.

[TBerry]

This thread is basically why we'll never see regions opened to each other JP is very much YTYP Tank = King attitude that in content often see Tanks/healers sit back & let DPS get beat into Oblivion by mobs/bosses for pulling first & mostly only provoke if another player rips aggro since not that players fault that other person pulled & often you'll see DPS puller get vote kicked from content.
If the Tank was one pack we're one packing if they want two packs we're two packing & if want wall to wall we're wall to walling it's always Tanks pace here & those who don't play by that tend to not last long on JP servers, like F some times we might have situations in Alliance sit there for 1-5 minutes because B maybe doesn't want to MT & other two maybe don't either or pay attention so we actually tend to wait outside of CT series very rare see DPS pull.

That's pretty much how things go on Chaos as well. If the run sucks or gets slower by every minute or generally terrible people either just leave, or finish and throw a hissy fit, then move on without giving a comm.
That's it. Not every Roulette or dungeon runs the same, especially not with random people.

[Grimforth]

Google is such an incredible tool.

lol just...stop. It's already set in stone that you're someone who pretends to know what they're talking about when they don't know anything. And that fact that you had to use google AI proves that.

You had use AI to win an argument.

[BlisteringFrost]

lol just...stop. It's already set in stone that you're someone who pretends to know what they're talking about when they don't know anything. And that fact that you had to use google AI proves that.

You had use AI to win an argument.

Three people just willfully ignoring the "However, you cannot legally use the system to harass or punish a player for simply being new or underperforming." Part.

Wiiiiild.