What is wrong about making machinist good?

[Reginald_Cain]

That would hold up if MCH was always lower at top or 95th percentile rDPS. But at least at the moment it is not. At half the current tier MCH top rDPS is shared best in the rphys role, and highest at 95th percentile in 3/4.

And even if we ignore current tier. It's not a clear argument for why MCH needs to perform better. The dependance on other players is an indirect job difficulty, which MCH doesn't have. And that added difficulty should be rewarded, not penalized.

I'm really tired of the other phys ranged holding machinist hostage. They need to abolish the current party composition system that forces 1 phys, 1 caster, 1-2 melee and reintroduce something like piercing down on dragoon.
to make comps with a supportive phys ranged like the bard and a selfish phys ranged like machinist viable again. The phys ranged as a role are in a terrible place with no cohesive identity. I'd rather machinist be balanced around samurai and black mage instead of bard and dancer. Make the 4th phys ranged selfish too so we have an even split. Reaper, black mage and samurai have plenty of movement tools and selfish phys ranged should not be knee capped to the point they can't compete with them. I don't want machinist to replace bard and dancer in every party, I want it to be strong and viable as a selfish dps who can use the bard songs and dancer partner as effectively as other selfish dps.

[aiqa]

I'm really tired of the other phys ranged holding machinist hostage. They need to abolish the current party composition system that forces 1 phys, 1 caster, 1-2 melee and reintroduce something like piercing down on dragoon.
to make comps with a supportive phys ranged like the bard and a selfish phys ranged like machinist viable again. The phys ranged as a role are in a terrible place with no cohesive identity. I'd rather machinist be balanced around samurai and black mage instead of bard and dancer. Make the 4th phys ranged selfish too so we have an even split. Reaper, black mage and samurai have plenty of movement tools and selfish phys ranged should not be knee capped to the point they can't compete with them. I don't want machinist to replace bard and dancer in every party, I want it to be strong and viable as a selfish dps who can use the bard songs and dancer partner as effectively as other selfish dps.

That is the wrong way to look at it. You're acting like there is some god given reason BRD/DNC need the performance they have now, and that MCH is only that weak because it happens to be in the same role as BRD/DNC.

How about this...
I am tired of MCH holding DNC/BRD hostage. DNC/BRD have a huge indirect difficulty over MCH by depending on their team for their rDPS. The only way you can be a top BRD/DNC is if your whole team is on point, but they can't be rewarded for that because of MCH holding them back. I propose BRD/DNC rDPS get buffed up to a top performing dps job. And they can make a 4th rphys job, at MCH levels, to codify a 2 tier system inside the rphys role.

See where that would leave MCH? You are asking for that, just for BRD/DNC. Having different performance tiers inside the whole of the dps role is a bad idea. It only causes problems, and fixes nothing.

[Reginald_Cain]

That is the wrong way to look at it. You're acting like there is some god given reason BRD/DNC need the performance they have now, and that MCH is only that weak because it happens to be in the same role as BRD/DNC.

How about this...
I am tired of MCH holding DNC/BRD hostage. DNC/BRD have a huge indirect difficulty over MCH by depending on their team for their rDPS. The only way you can be a top BRD/DNC is if your whole team is on point, but they can't be rewarded for that because of MCH holding them back. I propose BRD/DNC rDPS get buffed up to a top performing dps job. And they can make a 4th rphys job, at MCH levels, to codify a 2 tier system inside the rphys role.

See where that would leave MCH? You are asking for that, just for BRD/DNC. Having different performance tiers inside the whole of the dps role is a bad idea. It only causes problems, and fixes nothing.

The way i see it ,machinist is not a support and should not be balanced around tolwo support jobs. It has no utility and btw it uses a giant drill cannon. I'm asking jobs be balanced around how many raid buffs and utility skills they have. Viper and samurai are top dps while being easy to play because they provide no utility. Machinist and any selfish dps should be in their own category while jobs like dancer and bard should provide high rdps thru buffs. I'm asking for phys ranged as a whole to get buffed as a whole. Bard and dancers buffs should provide the group with so much damage it equalizes to selfish dps like machinist or viper instead of the current system where ALL 3 ARE ABYSMALLY WEAK. All dps should be near equal and they aren't. Selfish dps should have comparable adps to eachother while supportive ones have similar rdps to eachother. The rdps of support jobs should be equal to the adps of selfish ones. It's not at all asking for bard and dancer to suck. They fundamentally dont belong in the same subrole as machinist. They should be strong without bullying eachother out of the one slot that they shouldn't even have to share.

[aiqa]

The way i see it ,machinist is not a support and should not be balanced around tolwo support jobs. It has no utility and btw it uses a giant drill cannon. I'm asking jobs be balanced around how many raid buffs and utility skills they have. Viper and samurai are top dps while being easy to play because they provide no utility. Machinist and any selfish dps should be in their own category while jobs like dancer and bard should provide high rdps thru buffs. I'm asking for phys ranged as a whole to get buffed as a whole. Bard and dancers buffs should provide the group with so much damage it equalizes to selfish dps like machinist or viper instead of the current system where ALL 3 ARE ABYSMALLY WEAK. All dps should be near equal and they aren't. Selfish dps should have comparable adps to eachother while supportive ones have similar rdps to eachother. The rdps of support jobs should be equal to the adps of selfish ones. It's not at all asking for bard and dancer to suck. They fundamentally dont belong in the same subrole as machinist. They should be strong without bullying eachother out of the one slot that they shouldn't even have to share.

I don't really see any other important utility on BRD/DNC over MCH.
Raid buffs are already included in the rDPS scores. If you want to balance that persnal DPS around how strong the raids buffs are, you need to look at aDPS or nDPS. Else you're counting them twice.
And utility? What hugely strong utility do BRD/DNC bring that justifies lower rDPS contributions? MCH is right in the middle between BRD and DNC of what fflogs counts as "healing", which includes +resist and -damage statuses. And those scores are all quite close anyway.

And sure. The whole of the rphys role is in a terrible spot. Fully 100% agree with that. But specifically targeting MCH as the singular rphys job that has it bad, or even has it worse than DNC/BRD, is not correct.

[Valence]

That is the wrong way to look at it. You're acting like there is some god given reason BRD/DNC need the performance they have now, and that MCH is only that weak because it happens to be in the same role as BRD/DNC.

How about this...
I am tired of MCH holding DNC/BRD hostage. DNC/BRD have a huge indirect difficulty over MCH by depending on their team for their rDPS. The only way you can be a top BRD/DNC is if your whole team is on point, but they can't be rewarded for that because of MCH holding them back. I propose BRD/DNC rDPS get buffed up to a top performing dps job. And they can make a 4th rphys job, at MCH levels, to codify a 2 tier system inside the rphys role.

See where that would leave MCH? You are asking for that, just for BRD/DNC. Having different performance tiers inside the whole of the dps role is a bad idea. It only causes problems, and fixes nothing.

You want to reproduce for rphys the absolute horror the caster role currently has? Please no...

MCH should never have lost its identity to begin with. It used to be a buffer and the crowd control god in the game, why was this removed is beyond me.