What is wrong about making machinist good?

[brinn12]

That would hold up if MCH was always lower at top or 95th percentile rDPS. But at least at the moment it is not. At half the current tier MCH top rDPS is shared best in the rphys role, and highest at 95th percentile in 3/4.

And even if we ignore current tier. It's not a clear argument for why MCH needs to perform better. The dependance on other players is an indirect job difficulty, which MCH doesn't have. And that added difficulty should be rewarded, not penalized.

I'd wait for the next tier before judging. Being ahead in Savage during odd patches doesn't mean much, especially since the job has nothing to do in downtime and relies heavily on fight design to function in odd-patch Ultimates. Machinist was ahead of Dancer in Savage during 7.1, but it still had a terrible time in FRU. After that, it arguably had its worst fight since the rework, which was M6S. The fact of the matter is that MCH was a bad pick for both tiers and the Ultimate. Being decent for just 1/3 of an expansion means the job is being neglected. This is Endwalker all over again.

[aiqa]

I'd wait for the next tier before judging. Being ahead in Savage during odd patches doesn't mean much, especially since the job has nothing to do in downtime and relies heavily on fight design to function in odd-patch Ultimates. Machinist was ahead of Dancer in Savage during 7.1, but it still had a terrible time in FRU. After that, it arguably had its worst fight since the rework, which was M6S. The fact of the matter is that MCH was a bad pick for both tiers and the Ultimate. Being decent for just 1/3 of an expansion means the job is being neglected. This is Endwalker all over again.

Alright. But MCH is obviously the strongest rphys job right now. So why do we get a thread complaining about how specifically MCH needs to be buffed. How much stronger does MCH need to be than BRD and DNC before it's good enough?

[brinn12]

Alright. But MCH is obviously the strongest rphys job right now. So why do we get a thread complaining about how specifically MCH needs to be buffed. How much stronger does MCH need to be than BRD and DNC before it's good enough?

If SE thinks the job is strong, they'll buff DNC and BRD, meaning MCH would be strong only for an odd patch without a new Ultimate fight.

MCH is likely evenly balanced with the other ranged. Many good players have abandoned this tier completely, with the current BiS being useless. As I've said, we should wait until the next tier to make any conclusions, which Patch 7.1 / 7.2 already taught us. Until then, these threads should exist to highlight what has been happening over the long term.

[Valence]

Alright. But MCH is obviously the strongest rphys job right now. So why do we get a thread complaining about how specifically MCH needs to be buffed. How much stronger does MCH need to be than BRD and DNC before it's good enough?

I think there is a conflation of many complaints about the job among which the inconsistent dps output/model is only one of them. A lot of people's griefs with the job are also directly aimed at the actual class design and mechanics where a lot of very common complaints have been recurring for ages (no aoe battery, flamethrower conflicting with the rest of the kit on heat generation, no charges regen from autocrossbow, no AoE nor crit on WF, no kit interactions whatsoever, etc).