DRK feels super squish in comparison to the other tanks

[Mikey_R]

If ToB don't then TBN don't either. Both are extra HP BAR and both need damage to reduced by your defense first before it get depleted by that damage.

Yes and no. Just reducing them both down to effective HP does not tell the full story. TBN directly reduces the incoming damage whereas ToB does not. This difference is going to matter in some cases so it is important to not conflate the two.

And I'm posting it here for a future reference. In case that other came to look and make them realize that BW didn't mitigate less than TBN like someone trying to claim.

Due to the nature of the two actions, one will be better than the other based on the incoming damage proportional to the tanks HP and how that damage is done. If it is damage done in the first 4 seconds, they are about even in terms of mitigating damage (not counting the BW healing), however, if some of the damage is done outside of that first 4 seconds, or if the shield is broken early, TBN is likely to mitigate more, again, not counting the healing. If you want to do some calcs yourself, I worked out that 400 potency heal on Warrior is about 7% of their max HP in healing (I checked with all my gear on and with no gear on except weapon, both came out to the same).

[Katish]

I'm pretty sure Abyssal Drain don't heal that much on single target nor raid boss in high end content

The biggest change for lower levels in Dawntrail for ST heal was carve and spit heal gaining abyssal drain which was also not reflected in the video.
500 potency is still not nothing and it is enough combined with DrK's other mitigations given 60s isn't a whole lot of time as long as your cycling your mitigations. Prior to DT, in the video, AD was at 100 potency and C&S did not have the effect added, yet I was still able to self sustain even without.

For higher levels obvious the 40% mitigation free heal made tanking a breeze.

I do believe they need to rethink all mitigations because they put healers out of a job, and that includes outside of the tank role, so instead of increasing the floor I think we need to lower the ceiling.

[Oizen]

BW is 2 layers of damage reduction and a shield which is 10%+10%+400 potency shield that is no less than 10% of your HP so there is no way that BW mitigated less than TBN.

If you want to disect things so closely then you have to factor in the fact you can TBN twice in the time you can Bloodwhetting once.

[Reginald_Cain]

I feel like newer player aren't used to playing a regular tank that has no super heals. Back in stormblood and even shadowbringers to some extent tanks 15s cooldowns weren't nearly as strong and tbn felt insanely good compared to Shelton, heart of stone and raw intuition. Endwalker made every non dark knight tank have a massive heal or 2. Dark knight was considered fine as is because tbn was considered cracked for a while until then. Dark knights major sustain issues have mostly been fixed this expansion with the living dead rework and buffed abyssal drain/shadowed vigil. I like that dark knight feels like an edgy dps tank that blocks more than it heals. I also feel like dark knight is way faster and more exciting to play than the other tanks. The lack of heals is a fair trade off imo, but I won't complain if tbn gets an upgrade next expansion to provide a mini heal when it breaks or something.

[Carighan]

Back in stormblood and even shadowbringers to some extent tanks 15s cooldowns weren't nearly as strong

Yeah, you know, now that you mention it, the 15s CDs were quite weak back then. On account of that only being TBN. (you probably typo'd and meant to write 25s CDs? :P )

Because yes it was Shadowbringers that turned the short-CDs into a "real thing" on other tanks than DRK, the idea being that they in fact had stronger short-CDs, but DRK could use theirs a lot more often (15s CD vs 25s CD or ~30ish effective CD for Paladin).

[Reginald_Cain]

Yeah, you know, now that you mention it, the 15s CDs were quite weak back then. On account of that only being TBN. (you probably typo'd and meant to write 25s CDs? :P )

Because yes it was Shadowbringers that turned the short-CDs into a "real thing" on other tanks than DRK, the idea being that they in fact had stronger short-CDs, but DRK could use theirs a lot more often (15s CD vs 25s CD or ~30ish effective CD for Paladin).

Yeah 25s my b. Anyway the blackest night hasn't changed much since stormblood and back then it felt insanely strong. Now it's kinda outshined by heart of corundum, nascent flash and even intervention on allies because they can provide % damage reduction and healing. Tbn still feels incredible when it saves a life but it i hope it gets more interesting. It doesnt have to heal but maybe make it have alternative benefits for breaking it vs having it fade. Fade provides mana refund but no edge of shadow. Break provides mana and edge of shadow. Make the shield scale off the dark knights hp unless the target has more. I like dark knight being a damage centric tank with a strong shield + bonus magic resistance for the group. If dark knight can get 5 stacks of blood weapon back too that'd be great. Make torcleaver combo 5 parts that'd be sick. Also bring back the skill speed buff on blood weapon and be in heaven. Honestly if you want to make dark knight a drain tank like warrior just put abyssal drain back on the gcd. I feel like that's over kill and would rather they put life steal on blood weapon.

[Absurdity]

Yeah 25s my b. Anyway the blackest night hasn't changed much since stormblood and back then it felt insanely strong.

TBN during Stormblood just felt more impactful in general.
Besides defensives being generally weaker you also had an abundance of MP compared to now, you had actual interplay between your blood gauge and your MP so the 50 blood on TBN break felt like a bigger reward than just a free use of a relatively bland oGCD.

Basically, despite it's issues SB Dark Knight was just a more interesting job.

[The_User]

If you want to disect things so closely then you have to factor in the fact you can TBN twice in the time you can Bloodwhetting once.

Do boss Tank Buster Twice in 25s so the second TBN isn't a waste too? Oh and don't forget the MP regeneration.

The biggest change for lower levels in Dawntrail for ST heal was carve and spit heal gaining abyssal drain which was also not reflected in the video.
500 potency is still not nothing and it is enough combined with DrK's other mitigations given 60s isn't a whole lot of time as long as your cycling your mitigations. Prior to DT, in the video, AD was at 100 potency and C&S did not have the effect added, yet I was still able to self sustain even without.

For higher levels obvious the 40% mitigation free heal made tanking a breeze.

I do believe they need to rethink all mitigations because they put healers out of a job, and that includes outside of the tank role, so instead of increasing the floor I think we need to lower the ceiling.

Ah the enjoy your polishing turd cult. 500 potency vs what other 60s heals of other tanks is not enough and I don't think a healer should decide for me. If you got ball go make an All tank nerf thread [not that drk got a lot to nerf to begin with]

[The_User]

Yes and no. Just reducing them both down to effective HP does not tell the full story. TBN directly reduces the incoming damage whereas ToB does not. This difference is going to matter in some cases so it is important to not conflate the two.



Due to the nature of the two actions, one will be better than the other based on the incoming damage proportional to the tanks HP and how that damage is done. If it is damage done in the first 4 seconds, they are about even in terms of mitigating damage (not counting the BW healing), however, if some of the damage is done outside of that first 4 seconds, or if the shield is broken early, TBN is likely to mitigate more, again, not counting the healing. If you want to do some calcs yourself, I worked out that 400 potency heal on Warrior is about 7% of their max HP in healing (I checked with all my gear on and with no gear on except weapon, both came out to the same).

It is the same. You don't take more damage when using ToB and you also don't take less damage [than ToB] when using TBN. The only real difference is 5% of HP BAR.


Assuming WAR have 10,000 HP and cast ToB, it change to 12,000. An attack then have to deplete the 2000 HP first before it can cause your permanent 10,000 HP to decrease.
The extra 2000 HP that you get from ToB act as a cushion and thus help Mitigate the damage you would received to your permanent HP bar.



TBN is also a "Put an extra HP BAR as a cushion" before your permanent HP BAR but it can't be refill.

[Carighan]

Yeah 25s my b. Anyway the blackest night hasn't changed much since stormblood and back then it felt insanely strong.

Yeah.

I mean I get why the positive feedback about TBN led the devs to give other tanks "super mini CDs", too. And I get the idea behind DRK having the "simpler" one but on a 40% shorter CD, but since it also costs mana that doesn't really work out in practice, plus with the shield being based on the target HP not our own even on others, it loses a lot of its luster compared to the other tank CDs that don't have this negative scaling system.