DRK feels super squish in comparison to the other tanks

[WannaBeSuccubs]

A tank in current BiS has 271841 HP. Both take two busters of 350k about 60 seconds apart.

Buster 1:
Warrior mitigation: Damnation + Bloodwhetting
350000 x (0.6) x (0.9) x (0.9) - 22000 (from Bloodwhetting's Barrier) = 148100

Dark Knight mitigation: Shadowed Vigil + Blackest Night + Dark Mind + Oblation
350000 x (0.6) x (0.8) x (0.9) - 67960 (from TBN) = 83240 (if magical)
350000 x (0.6) x (0.9) x (0.9) - 67960 (from TBN) = 102140 (if physical)

Buster 2:
Warrior Mitigation: Rampart + Bloodwhetting + Thrill of Battle
350000 x (0.8) x (0.9) x (0.9) - 31680 (from Bloodwhetting's Barrier buffed by ToB and Rampart) = 195120

Dark Knight mitigation: Rampart + Dark Mind + Blackest Night + Oblation
350000 x (0.8) x (0.8) x (0.9) - 67960 (from TBN) = 133640 (if magical)
350000 x (0.8) x (0.9) x (0.9) - 67960 (from TBN) = 158840 (if physical)

Ok so first thank you for actually taking the time to actually disprove my point.
instead of just giving me another flavor of "you're dumb and wrong"
So using your example I'd like to add on as I was typing this up I did realize that I did prove myself wrong in the case of WAR vs DRK
So again I appreciate you actually taking the time to prove me wrong here.

DRK is taking 17% less damage than WAR, if the damage is magical, in this example at least after the second buster specifically.

Assuming that the ending HP % doesn't matter so long as your survive, that 17% less damage from the second buster barely matters

However for the next minute until the second TB. You have one 10s 10% mit and TBN which iirc it's not a loss to use every 30s so long as it pops.

We'll assume the DRK banks an oblation charge for the downtime between TB's

So in the downtime between the TB's WAR has a 19% mit up for 4 seconds, and a 10% mit up for an additional 4 seconds

While DRK has 10 seconds of 10% Mitigation and TBN assuming something will hit you hard enough to break it between the TBs
so 10% for 2 seconds longer, which might be enough to cover an extra auto depending on if you time it right, but let's assume our Tanks are perfect at timing their mits

Let's say that auto's do 15% max HP damage for the sake of argument since that would be enough to break TBN in 2 auto's from the boss

with Oblation + TBN the DRK is at 98%

While WAR With Just Blood wetting is at 100%

Then the 3rd auto assuming BW misses this due to its shorter timer, and Oblation catches it DRK is at 84.5% while WAR is at 85%

Negligible difference

For now the point has been proven in the case of DRK vs WAR since the numbers are negligibly different

Honestly it could just end up being Git Gud
I would like that to be the answer because then I can just Get better

I would like to additionally go into PLD and GNB vs DRK in the same situations
for the sake of the argument and being thorough but I'm not gonna have enough characters in this post so they'll be separate posts

[Absurdity]

The 15s cooldown is a lie. Due to MP regeneration limitation, DRK only gets 4 uses of TBN or Edge per 2-minutes. That's on average once per 30s. Oh and when TBN doesn't get fully consumed DRK doesn't get dark arts and misses out on damage.

The 15s is kind of a lie, but it's also not what I was talking about.
TBN's cooldown only matters in niche scenarios like Abyssos savage's bleed busters, that lasted long enough for you to use TBN on the initial hit and a 2nd time to absorb the DoT damage.
What is more important here are Dark Mind's and Oblation's 60s cooldowns that make it very likely for both to be up on every tank buster.

Meanwhile Warrior's only extra defensive, besides the 40%, 20% and ~20% that every tank has, is Thrill of Battle, a 90 second cooldown that is unlikely to be up for every buster.
And that one isn't even mitigation, increasing your max HP doesn't reduce any damage you take and comes with it's own set of jank.

What should absolutely still be adressed is the 1200 MP that Dark Knight lost every minute when Blood Weapon went from 5 stacks down to 3, because that change did affect TBN usage negatively.

[The_User]

The 15s is kind of a lie, but it's also not what I was talking about.
TBN's cooldown only matters in niche scenarios like Abyssos savage's bleed busters, that lasted long enough for you to use TBN on the initial hit and a 2nd time to absorb the DoT damage.
What is more important here are Dark Mind's and Oblation's 60s cooldowns that make it very likely for both to be up on every tank buster.

Meanwhile Warrior's only extra defensive, besides the 40%, 20% and ~20% that every tank has, is Thrill of Battle, a 90 second cooldown that is unlikely to be up for every buster.
And that one isn't even mitigation, increasing your max HP doesn't reduce any damage you take and comes with it's own set of jank.

What should absolutely still be adressed is the 1200 MP that Dark Knight lost every minute when Blood Weapon went from 5 stacks down to 3, because that change did affect TBN usage negatively.

If a refillable extra HP bar doesn't count as a mitigation then what do you call a none refillable HP bar like TBN?

[Absurdity]

If a refillable extra HP bar doesn't count as a mitigation then what do you call a none refillable HP bar like TBN?

ToB contributes to your eHP but it simply isn't mitigation, this is not some kind of alien concept.
Unlike TBN it doesn't actually reduce the damage you take. It makes your HP bar 20% bigger so you're less likely to get oneshot, but you still take the full damage without additional cooldowns to actually reduce it.

[Katish]

Skill issue, the video below is before abyssal drain was buffed (before DT, which means it's easier now) and was min item lvl synced (3DPS, 1 DRK [me]) (full pulls). Min item lvl syncs you below normal so it cripples everyone :: SMN did not have phoenix in the time skip because of it.
DrK might have less sustain, but it can still solo sustain...

I would advocate that all four tanks be nerfed in mitigation and their kits instead.


https://youtu.be/zttiIWIZsaA?feature=shared&t=1849

[The_User]

ToB contributes to your eHP but it simply isn't mitigation, this is not some kind of alien concept.
Unlike TBN it doesn't actually reduce the damage you take. It makes your HP bar 20% bigger so you're less likely to get oneshot, but you still take the full damage without additional cooldowns to actually reduce it.

You're implying the damage you take while ToB is active didn't have to go through your defense but it only have to when you use TBN?

[The_User]

Skill issue, the video below is before abyssal drain was buffed (before DT, which means it's easier now) and was min item lvl synced (3DPS, 1 DRK [me]) (full pulls). Min item lvl syncs you below normal so it cripples everyone :: SMN did not have phoenix in the time skip because of it.
DrK might have less sustain, but it can still solo sustain...

I would advocate that all four tanks be nerfed in mitigation and their kits instead.



https://youtu.be/zttiIWIZsaA?feature=shared&t=1849

I'm pretty sure Abyssal Drain don't heal that much on single target nor raid boss in high end content

[The_User]

BW is 2 layers of damage reduction and a shield which is 10%+10%+400 potency shield that is no less than 10% of your HP so there is no way that BW mitigated less than TBN.

[Mikey_R]

You're implying the damage you take while ToB is active didn't have to go through your defense but it only have to when you use TBN?

If that is what you got from that, you are literally grasping at straws to try and make them seem wrong. All that was stated was ToB does not mitigate damage. Nothing was said about the defence stat at all.

[The_User]

If that is what you got from that, you are literally grasping at straws to try and make them seem wrong. All that was stated was ToB does not mitigate damage. Nothing was said about the defence stat at all.

If ToB don't then TBN don't either. Both are extra HP BAR and both need damage to reduced by your defense first before it get depleted by that damage.



And I'm posting it here for a future reference. In case that other came to look and make them realize that BW didn't mitigate less than TBN like someone trying to claim.