"We're people too." To the producer and Dev team of this MMORPG

[Sunhwapark]

I dont know if Yoshida's crocodile tears technique works in a post dawntrail world.

The image of him shedding a single tear, as he pockets my sub money... fine art...

[Underscore]

Meanwhile, over a decade ago...

The problem is that some people interpret this as a free pass to engage in an unlimited amount of toxic and entitled behaviour.

(this post is addressed to everyone btw, not you specifically)

Laying out constructive criticism in a respectful and sensible manner? Great, go ahead!
Acting as if the devs murdered your family over the smallest of perceived slights? (this part of the video game isn't quite the way you'd like) Not so great.

The latter is presumably what Yoshida was talking about. In this community, especially here on the forums, there's a tendency to villainize the developers to an absurd degree and indeed forget that they're people making a video game for us to enjoy. The greater their passion, the greater the product we'll receive; so excessive hostility is unproductive.

You can disagree with their decisions and vocally complain about them, but always think before you post. You pay for the game but you do so voluntarily, and what you're paying for is the game the way it is now. It's good if the devs listen to player feedback and make improvements, but they're under no direct obligation to implement everything that's asked for. If you're getting so worked up over the game that you're making threads like "This new hat is UNACCEPTABLE, they're GASLIGHTING us over it and need to be FIRED!!!" (for a slightly hyperbolic example) then you probably need to take a step back and chill out. Hence my recommendation to go outside.

Don't get me wrong, I've also been guilty of this at times - and it gets tiring. We'd all be better off being a little more thoughtful in our critiques.

[IttyBittyShark]

I wonder if it's a cultural difference? I notice a lot of Asian games tend to just spell everything out for you and then also repeat it for good measure.

this could be the case? i don't have my own personal reference off the top of my head to compare, but if this is a reoccurring theme in asian games then i could see it.

is anyone here asian who grew up/around this sort of storytelling? is this something that frustrated you or is it normal for you?

i am curious about this

[Kahnha]

The problem is that some people interpret this as a free pass to engage in an unlimited amount of toxic and entitled behaviour.

(this post is addressed to everyone btw, not you specifically)

You can disagree with their decisions and vocally complain about them, but always think before you post. You pay for the game but you do so voluntarily, and what you're paying for is the game the way it is now. It's good if the devs listen to player feedback and make improvements, but they're under no direct obligation to implement everything that's asked for. If you're getting so worked up over the game that you're making threads like "This new hat is UNACCEPTABLE, they're GASLIGHTING us over it and need to be FIRED!!!" (for a slightly hyperbolic example) then you probably need to take a step back and chill out. Hence my recommendation to go outside.

Don't get me wrong, I've also been guilty of this at times, and it gets tiring. We'd all be better off being a little more thoughtful in our critiques.

Any criticism, praise or suggestions they get from any of us paying customers is part of the "everyone" no exclusions.

So you agree with what is said collectively people filing out; they are not enjoying the content and therefore
They are no longer volunteering their time and money to the game

It is not good when people feel unheard, ofc they are going to get toxic eventually when they are constantly met with excuses, apologies and no changes.
if the MMO keeps going like it is people are not going to keep giving them solutions like I did before they're going to get apathetic that will kill the MMO the producer told us that if they keep being short they would have to consider going up on subs this being short on money is because of lack of QA from the dev team and mismanagement of previous funds on the corp's part.

Just because they are being criticized does not mean we that are asking for them to do better or at the very least as good as they were are being entitled, I feel like people that defend them because of the toxic feedback they get from some few people are being over sensitive so if you insulate them from any criticism then how are they supposed to improve?

The irony is probably lost on you that in that thread you were calling for a developer of this game to be fired from her job, and in this thread you're arguing the developers should not be seen as people. Yoshi-P's comment was so perfectly curated towards you, if you only had a shred of empathy.

Explain where I have said that they should not be seen as people. I'm curious can you quote anything or will you make more stuff up.
quite obvious you did not read what was said so why are you even here talking?

[Gurgeh]

... The greater their passion, the greater the product we'll receive; so excessive hostility is unproductive.

... You pay for the game but you do so voluntarily, and what you're paying for is the game the way it is now...

It sounds good. But it's an oversimplification, which is the most pernicious (my word of the day it seems) of all falsehoods, and it also presumes to declare other subjective interpretations of history, incorrect, which would border on patronising if not worse.

People have spent getting on for half a decade criticizing nicely, and reasonably, and it didn't work. Frankly, I'm rather inclined to think that taking the gloves off and coming out swinging from the hips at anything that moves may perhaps have been required, to mobilise the exodus, and ensure the criticisms are clear. I could go into detail, but i don't presume people should be bashed over the head with my interpretation until they can't be bothered to voice their disagreement.

As for paying for the game. We paid for a promise. We paid for a reasonable expectation.
Quite a lot of money actually when you consider what we got.
I'm sorry the content of Dawntrail, at $60 preorder, when you compare that to the effort at work and detail , all original not recycled, that you get for most non service titles. When your compare that even just to previous expansions, was dismal.
Where was the offer of partial refunds.
Where was my option for a refund of the remaining three weeks on my sub when i decided after the first week that what I got was just awful.


So for the second time this thread, I say No.

And it's a multiplayer service game, so please noone suggest I should just wait two or three weeks to get the spoiled version from the opinion of those relatable bastions of culture and the down to earth editorial on YouTube.
So No. Respectfully, I'm sorry, but no.

And do please be careful with "go outside". People shouldn't have to be polite to anything that even sniffs of "if your burned out it sounds like you should leave and unsub". It is known by all, concerning all that would not be welcome.

[Exmo]

Explain where I have said that they should not be seen as people. I'm curious can you quote anything or will you make more stuff up.
quite obvious you did not read what was said so why are you even here talking?

^No acknowledgment of the fact that you were calling for a dev to be fired, in full contradiction of the compassion requested by Yoshi-P. Disappointing but not surprising.

Your entire gist with this thread is "you are people, HOWEVER". You elevate your perceived right to attack and criticize the devs over their personhood. This is how you explicitly choose to frame your argument, thereby validating the toxicity that prompted Yoshi-P's plea to the community. You could have taken an alternate approach that did not undermine the quote but instead you heard "we're people too" and your reaction was to say "that matters less than my desire to criticize you".

[Turtledeluxe]

snip

The problem is that after the success of SB they forgot all those slides. Every single one.

[ViinaS]

^No acknowledgment of the fact that you were calling for a dev to be fired, in full contradiction of the compassion requested by Yoshi-P. Disappointing but not surprising.

Your entire gist with this thread is "you are people, HOWEVER". You elevate your perceived right to attack and criticize the devs over their personhood. This is how you explicitly choose to frame your argument, thereby validating the toxicity that prompted Yoshi-P's plea to the community. You could have taken an alternate approach that did not undermine the quote but instead you heard "we're people too" and your reaction was to say "that matters less than my desire to criticize you".

That's just your strawman and weird interpretation to fit your own narrative at work.
You do know we can read the OP ourselves?
Meaning we can see your deranged strawman for what it is.

[Exmo]

That's just your strawman and weird interpretation to fit your own narrative at work.
You do know we can read the OP ourselves?
Meaning we can see your deranged strawman for what it is.

"Strawman"



This thread is full of people telling OP to touch grass but nobody's saying you can't criticize the game. Figure out why.

[Manamaru]

"The quality of the game has gone down, the writing should be more aimed towards adults like it used to be. The game is a whole lot of untapped potential that lacks care and innovation in a lot of departments. Do better. You are being paid monthly."

Since we have some certain individuals that want to drag the conversation down again with emotional blackmail and bad faith arguments, I asked chatgpt to rephrase your statement in the style of a Xianxia cultivation novel for fun and to refocus on your point.

"This so-called 'Golden Core' is a pitiful mockery of its former brilliance. In ages past, its essence resonated with the clarity and depth suited for those who had stepped beyond the Mortal Realm true cultivators of discernment. But now? It has been reduced to a shallow construct, lacking both refinement and spiritual weight.

The potential lies dormant, vast as a boundless sea, yet no one dares to channel it. The sect responsible shows neither the ingenuity of a Formation Master nor the care of an Alchemy Elder. Where is the innovation? Where is the soul?

Do not forget you are sustained monthly by spirit stones offered willingly by the faithful. This mediocrity is unworthy of such tribute. Temper your hearts, refine your craft, and return with something worthy of the Heavenly Dao."

---

But really, goodwill is a hard earned currency that often gets spent carelessly. When people get used to being handed a poorly produced and written product time and time again, many will just leave. And it'll sound heartless, but the average consumer doesn't care about things going on underneath, whether it be game dev, consumable goods, streamers, or whatever. The average consumer only cares whether the end-product is good/well made or not. We'll see if they realize that or not. I hope they do.