On "Infringing upon Others" and "Negatively impacting design"

[VerdeLuck]

No, enmity list is not the same as a DPS meter. No, you cannot recreate logs with the in game combat log and a calculator, no one does this. If it were viable they would do that instead of injection.

And the sites being default running on everyone affects people's personal enjoyment when it's used to beat new ones over the head with their performance and used as a measure of who is allowed in PFs for new content. FFLogs and Tombstone are a prime example of a mod that has gone so widespread people aren't even afraid to talk about using it and aren't afraid to use it against other players maliciously.

If Mare crossed the line, those sites definitely cross the line.

[BlisteringFrost]

No, enmity list is not the same as a DPS meter. No, you cannot recreate logs with the in game combat log and a calculator, no one does this. If it were viable they would do that instead of injection.

And the sites being default running on everyone affects people's personal enjoyment when it's used to beat new ones over the head with their performance and used as a measure of who is allowed in PFs for new content. FFLogs and Tombstone are a prime example of a mod that has gone so widespread people aren't even afraid to talk about using it and aren't afraid to use it against other players maliciously.

If Mare crossed the line, those sites definitely cross the line.

It's not against the TOS to talk about mods. It's against the TOS to actively advertise one.

Read it.

[Saraide]

No, enmity list is not the same as a DPS meter. No, you cannot recreate logs with the in game combat log and a calculator, no one does this. If it were viable they would do that instead of injection.

And the sites being default running on everyone affects people's personal enjoyment when it's used to beat new ones over the head with their performance and used as a measure of who is allowed in PFs for new content. FFLogs and Tombstone are a prime example of a mod that has gone so widespread people aren't even afraid to talk about using it and aren't afraid to use it against other players maliciously.

If Mare crossed the line, those sites definitely cross the line.

No one uses a calculator because it's vastly more inconvenient than just having a program read all the relevant info directly. If ACT didnt exist, then people would use copy and paste the combat log into an excel macro. No one really cares about your logs anyway, using it to filter out progliars is not malicious either. Naturally there are also people who are not smart enough to read logs and will try to shut down valid opinions but in doing so they just reveal themselves as fools to anyone else which i see as a benefit.

Edit: The thing with hiding logs is that you kinda show other people that you care too much about logs by doing it.

[Aravell]

Naturally there are also people who are not smart enough to read logs and will try to shut down valid opinions but in doing so they just reveal themselves as fools to anyone else which i see as a benefit.

The problem here is that people who use logs beneficially are greatly outnumbered by the tools who treat logs as the ultimate truth yet can't read any part of the log except the shiny percentile number.

Can't really downplay the negative effect when so many people fit the bill. See how many people on the forums try and shut down discussions on anything from savage content discussion to MSQ dungeon discussion with "Erm akshually, you're grey on the numbers website, so you dont get an opinion".

[Saraide]

The problem here is that people who use logs beneficially are greatly outnumbered by the tools who treat logs as the ultimate truth yet can't read any part of the log except the shiny percentile number.

Can't really downplay the negative effect when so many people fit the bill. See how many people on the forums try and shut down discussions on anything from savage content discussion to MSQ dungeon discussion with "Erm akshually, you're grey on the numbers website, so you dont get an opinion".

I think we have the entire mind set backwards here. Those people are looking to shut down your opinion and only after establishing that goal do they look for whatever they think supports it. Just check the dude from my signature. He tried to do that. I dont even do savage in pf, it's just entirely made up. When that one weirdo made the spreadsheet out of the healer thread they already had their conclusion when going in. This way they just outed themselves as person who shouldnt be listened to thanks to focusing on logs while not understanding anything about the forum. It wouldnt even have mattered. We both know that the healer thread is always in the superposition of being at the same time accused of being too good at the game and not being good enough.