A design exercise for job changes, come 8.0

[Jeeqbit]

Piety was a main stat (purple) that increased MP, but was changed to a healer-specific substat. Given role stats were added in Stormblood, it must have been in Stormblood.

Every job had seemingly random amounts of MP and although it increased with level, so did the usage, so it was utterly pointless. Meanwhile TP was fixed at 1,000 for everyone. Since they were removing TP, they figured to make MP work the way TP did by giving everyone a fixed 10,000 MP. With that change, they had no choice but to change how Piety worked to instead adjust the regen rate. That was in Shadowbringers.

Everyone could meld primary stats back then. I was still melding them in Stormblood to increase Strength, so it must have changed in Shadowbringers.

[Taranok]

Piety was a main stat (purple) that increased MP, but was changed to a healer-specific substat. Given role stats were added in Stormblood, it must have been in Stormblood.

Every job had seemingly random amounts of MP and although it increased with level, so did the usage, so it was utterly pointless. Meanwhile TP was fixed at 1,000 for everyone. Since they were removing TP, they figured to make MP work the way TP did by giving everyone a fixed 10,000 MP. With that change, they had no choice but to change how Piety worked to instead adjust the regen rate.

Everyone could meld primary stats back then. I was still melding them in Stormblood to increase Strength, so it must have changed in Shadowbringers.

Only tanks really did this, and they got around the issue by running maiming accessories. By stormblood, the devs realized the problem and just started throwing strength on tank gear.

Regardless, my interest is, again, the point buy system that existed in ARR and HW.

[Mikey_R]

Yes, but I'm referring to the old attribute point system.

Yes, Piety used to be a main stat, just like Strength, Dexterity, Vitality, Mind and Intelligence and you could add your level up points to it.

[Jeeqbit]

Only tanks really did this, and they got around the issue by running maiming accessories. By stormblood, the devs realized the problem and just started throwing strength on tank gear.

They didn't just realize the problem then. They had been fighting it throughout Heavensward by making Vitality also a damage stat for tanks.

To solve it long-term, they role-restricted accessories, but then tanks decided to wear HW accessories. So they kinda gave up and just put Strength on all tank accessories, then overhauled the system entirely in Shadowbringers by making stats for all roles the same amount and adding the Tank Mastery trait to do a % adjustment instead, a fairly obvious solution to the problem that understandably would have taken them a lot of work.

I had heard of many healers that melded Piety, because back then, there was no universal optimization spot like The Balance, so healers were split on what to meld. I had heard of many Savage raiders that stacked Vitality to survive mechanics. But more importantly than all that, a lot of people probably melded the wrong stats out of ignorance - it only served to trap new players.

[Valence]

No, mind was the old +healing stat. Piety was +mp.

You're right it was piety melds. 284 recommended for BLM, 310 for tryharders with exotic builds for 7-5 F4s in astral instead of 6-4.

[RedLolly]

Didn't all of this Happen with StB, then ShB just cleaned it up some?

While role skills were A bit wonky in StB,they needed Manual selecting which you want, they weren't tied to other classes anymore, same with getting your job unlocked.

And a lot of the job gauges were really badly utilized at the time too. Still are in some cases (looking at you fairy gauge)

Oh crap I did write ShB and not SB.

[Connor]

I remember the good old days when Bards melded piety as their secondary stat (it was 1.0 it was not the good days at all lol). Of course, this was back when Bards were allowed to use magic (including Thunder! It was awful but looked badass). Then Yoshi-P decided for no reason ‘bards will never use magic ever despite traditionally being casters. Not even sure if it affected MP back then.

Still though I honestly miss weird things like that. Everything is just so…septic now. Like they took the battle system and poured bleach mixed with acid over the top of it. Substats are practically meaningless; just meld crit/dhr and you’re probably good (not you blm). Even healers who literally aren’t supposed to have DHR meld DHR lol. What if someone wanted to be like a Piety-focused healer with more MP, or idk a skill speed Dancer. You’d be laughed out the expert dungeon lol. Why do these awful, awful substats even exist when their only purpose is to be ignored for crit/direct hit? Illusion of choice?

It’s no wonder the game has become so stale when they’re so insistent on shaving off the corners until it’s a perfect circle lol. I mean, obviously I’m not saying these specific examples must be returned for the game to be ‘interesting’, but at the same time it’s like they actively work against anything that could make the game actually ‘rpg-like’, or at least give it slightly more depth than a dried-out puddle lol.

Honestly as an aside I don’t get why Yoshi-P is so vehemently against (j)RPGs, which he considers a literal slur lol. I mean, ff16’s gameplay kinda says it all…
Like is it really a good idea to say that you don’t believe in the thing your company is generally associated with? Isn’t that like Burger King being offended that people like its burgers and not the salad?

[RedLolly]

Honestly as an aside I don’t get why Yoshi-P is so vehemently against (j)RPGs, which he considers a literal slur lol. I mean, ff16’s gameplay kinda says it all…
Like is it really a good idea to say that you don’t believe in the thing your company is generally associated with? Isn’t that like Burger King being offended that people like its burgers and not the salad?

He came from Dragon Quest, too, which is every bit as RPG and turn based centric as Final Fantasy.

I think the problem is he's one of the voices that don't consider turn-based as anything but a limitation. "It was only done because the only way to get the flash and detail they wanted their games to have, they needed to use a limited form of combat. Action games are more appealing, right?"

Never mind the fact that table-top, turn based games were what early RPG games of every region were inspired by and are doing *very well* right now. And then Clair Obscur released, eating FFXVI's lunch, and SE leadership is baffled, and this happened just in time to start brainstorming the next mainline release.

FFXVII is going to be so weird. I can't wait.