The new dungeon is still ENTIRELY too easy

[theunhappypotato]

every dungeon in this game i badly designed cause its just a corridor of duty

[Miguel85NYC]

The new Dungeon was complete trash..

[JadeCurtiss]

If a savage/ultimate raider isn't bored out of their mind doing the dungeon, the dungeon is way, way too hard.

Completely false and this kind of thinking is poison for the game. If you don't design so that everyone can find at least some engagement in something you are setting yourself up for failure. I found the bosses in Meso Terminal to be engaging and it's not because it's anywhere close to Savage. No, it's because you have to simply pay attention at the bare minimum instead of watching Youtube on your other monitor. People treat death as some egregious fault of the game design that shouldn't exist. If people think it's okay to stand in aoes because they won't be punished they will continue doing it. You will never learn anything if there is no failure state. Even Yoshida thinks the player base has been coddled too much by lax design so he's set out to reverse that.

I want to also reiterate that none of this is new. Many old dungeons are on par with current difficulty if not harder. The game is not getting harder, it is going back to what it used to be.

[Taranok]

Completely false and this kind of thinking is poison for the game. If you don't design so that everyone can find at least some engagement in something you are setting yourself up for failure. I found the bosses in Meso Terminal to be engaging and it's not because it's anywhere close to Savage. No, it's because you have to simply pay attention at the bare minimum instead of watching Youtube on your other monitor. People treat death as some egregious fault of the game design that shouldn't exist. If people think it's okay to stand in aoes because they won't be punished they will continue doing it. You will never learn anything if there is no failure state. Even Yoshida thinks the player base has been coddled too much by lax design so he's set out to reverse that.

I want to also reiterate that none of this is new. Many old dungeons are on par with current difficulty if not harder. The game is not getting harder, it is going back to what it used to be.

Dungeons are casual content. It is mandatory for the biggest part of this game, the MSQ. There are 60 year olds who might play this game for the story that need to be able to clear this content. Your thinking is why dawntrail is collapsing the playerbase. Hell, your thinking is literally what killed Wildstar. They catered to the hardcore so hard that they ran their playerbase into the ground, and had too large a team for what they were trying to do.

The order of operations for difficulty is Open World < FATEs < Dungeons < Trial (normal) < Alliance < Trial (extreme) Savage < Ultimate. Dungeons are part of the 4 sections of mandatory content, they must be easy enough that your grandmother can do it. The mechanics need to be simple enough that a 12 year old can do it and not get more than a slap on the wrist for failing a mechanic.

And you may say many older dungeons are as hard as this, I say check those dungeons again. The overwhelming majority of ARR, HW, SB, and ShB dungeons are nowhere close in difficulty to what EW and DT have been putting out. Especially if you have cast bars or lag. Doubly so if both. Of the hard ARR dungeons like Aurum Vale (original,) people couldn't stop griping about it to the point where it was their least favorite dungeon for multiple expansions in a row. Your argument holds no water.

Remember, the devs had to change the implementation of a mechanic that has been unchanged (and largely forgotten) since literally the relaunch of the game, because dungeons had a single point of failure and kept wiping off of that single point of failure dying. This is, objectively, trash design.

[BlisteringFrost]

Dungeons are casual content. It is mandatory for the biggest part of this game, the MSQ. There are 60 year olds who might play this game for the story that need to be able to clear this content. Your thinking is why dawntrail is collapsing the playerbase. Hell, your thinking is literally what killed Wildstar. They catered to the hardcore so hard that they ran their playerbase into the ground, and had too large a team for what they were trying to do.

The order of operations for difficulty is Open World < FATEs < Dungeons < Trial (normal) < Alliance < Trial (extreme) Savage < Ultimate. Dungeons are part of the 4 sections of mandatory content, they must be easy enough that your grandmother can do it. The mechanics need to be simple enough that a 12 year old can do it and not get more than a slap on the wrist for failing a mechanic.

And you may say many older dungeons are as hard as this, I say check those dungeons again. The overwhelming majority of ARR, HW, SB, and ShB dungeons are nowhere close in difficulty to what EW and DT have been putting out. Especially if you have cast bars or lag. Doubly so if both. Of the hard ARR dungeons like Aurum Vale (original,) people couldn't stop griping about it to the point where it was their least favorite dungeon for multiple expansions in a row. Your argument holds no water.

Remember, the devs had to change the implementation of a mechanic that has been unchanged (and largely forgotten) since literally the relaunch of the game, because dungeons had a single point of failure and kept wiping off of that single point of failure dying. This is, objectively, trash design.

Sounds like a whole lot of NOT MY PROBLEM.

60 year old who can afford a living space and a computer to play XIV on (or a playstation, no judge) can rub enough brain cells together to problem solve how to complete a dungeon. You, on the other hand, are treating them as if they are utterly invalid by assuming they aren't capable of doing so.

I feel insulted for my own intelligence for even feeling like you need this pointed out to you. I feel insulted for yours too. Be better.

[SyferU]

The Dungeon difficulty is fine right now. There is only a few people having problems clearing it, but if you increase the difficulty too much, you can be sure more casuals are gonna leave the game.
People that enjoy harder content will feel it as well. Do you think they pushed the Ultimate to 7.5 for no reason? It's to set up an Ultimate in 8.3 and then pushing the next one to 9.1 giving us only one Ultimate next expansion.
SE has to cut content cause they lost to many casual players/money.

[hydralus]

Dungeons are casual content. It is mandatory for the biggest part of this game, the MSQ. There are 60 year olds who might play this game for the story that need to be able to clear this content. They must be easy enough that your grandmother can do it.

I suggest they level WAR and play with trusts. If their only desire is to finish the MSQ they should be fine even with 10 vuln stacks.

[theunhappypotato]

please tell me where EW casual content was difficult, everything a fter Tower of Zot was a snoozefest. if you cant learn basic telegraphs then i really question your ability to play this game

[Kaurhz]

please tell me where EW casual content was difficult, everything a fter Tower of Zot was a snoozefest. if you cant learn basic telegraphs then i really question your ability to play this game

They didn't really say that it was difficult in and of itself, just that relative to other expansions it had more difficulty tied to it, which if you look at it relative to Stormblood they definitely aren't wrong, Stormblood dungeons were just as much, if not a greater snoozefest than anything EW pushed out. Shadowbringers as well, really..

ARR is a case where the overwhelming majority of the dungeons you could completely fall asleep in and not worry about anything, it just happened to be the case that ARR had some outliers, but they were far and few between.

They really aren't wrong if you actually think about what they actually wrote.

[DiaDeem]