Here we go again

[Boblawblah]

Okay, finally got through the 7.3 dungeon. This was with a trust, which is the only way I play unless I'm forced not to.

Most of the time, I was fine, 1st and 3rd bosses I had to just follow what my NPCs were doing because I couldn't follow the mechanics really at all, and couldn't figure out where I needed to stand to not get gibbed. I'm sure that would decrease the more I played the dungeon.

2nd boss, as expected, was a doozy. With how fast the flails drop compared to the markers, I wasn't sure where to stand at first, and got killed instantly the first go round. 2nd attempt, I died and had no idea why. I had seem a beam going towards the area but didn't really understand what it was doing. I looked that up and someone said it was targetable, so I focused killing that, and 3rd time I passed. My killing speed was way behind the other 3 members, so they were just sitting around watching me, and even though they're NPCs, I felt pretty stupid/bad for how slow I am. This one thing along will mean that I'll avoid this dungeon with people forever. I have enough feeling stupid in parties as it is with having 3 other people sit there watching me suck.

I will say over all though, for people that say these dungeons aren't any harder than earlier dungeons, I have to wonder which dungeons they're referring to. There's basically no 'stay out of the red' anymore, if you see the red, it's too late, you need to watch other things, which for me, gets very difficult, but as long as the Trusts remain as they are, I can struggle through it.

I'm not against this kind of difficulty, but it would be nice to have a way to practice boss mechanics or something other than 'keep repeating the dungeon over and over again'. I'd like that.

[BlisteringFrost]

Okay, finally got through the 7.3 dungeon. This was with a trust, which is the only way I play unless I'm forced not to.

Most of the time, I was fine, 1st and 3rd bosses I had to just follow what my NPCs were doing because I couldn't follow the mechanics really at all, and couldn't figure out where I needed to stand to not get gibbed. I'm sure that would decrease the more I played the dungeon.

2nd boss, as expected, was a doozy. With how fast the flails drop compared to the markers, I wasn't sure where to stand at first, and got killed instantly the first go round. 2nd attempt, I died and had no idea why. I had seem a beam going towards the area but didn't really understand what it was doing. I looked that up and someone said it was targetable, so I focused killing that, and 3rd time I passed. My killing speed was way behind the other 3 members, so they were just sitting around watching me, and even though they're NPCs, I felt pretty stupid/bad for how slow I am. This one thing along will mean that I'll avoid this dungeon with people forever. I have enough feeling stupid in parties as it is with having 3 other people sit there watching me suck.

I will say over all though, for people that say these dungeons aren't any harder than earlier dungeons, I have to wonder which dungeons they're referring to. There's basically no 'stay out of the red' anymore, if you see the red, it's too late, you need to watch other things, which for me, gets very difficult, but as long as the Trusts remain as they are, I can struggle through it.

I'm not against this kind of difficulty, but it would be nice to have a way to practice boss mechanics or something other than 'keep repeating the dungeon over and over again'. I'd like that.

The NPC's don't help because they're poorly designed.

Players who kill their boss can jump into someone elses circle to help take them down. It's not unusual at all for Tanks and Heals to finish theirs first because the HP scales with the role the boss is tethered to. It's not harder than "usual" because by now you should be more accustom to the idea that mechanics aren't going to be clear what precisely to do every time 20 seconds ahead of time.

They literally had a point about "not relying on the Echo to become more powerful in combat" when Midgardsormr showed up in the story. The story itself. Literally. Verbatim. Says "it's time to git gud WOL". At level 100 if 3 giant balls above your head do not translate to "move away from that" I can't not personally offer any advice to help. You're not level 15 anymore. You're level 100. At SOME point you'll need to grasp the basics of combat. That's why people are saying it's not really that hard. You'll die a couple times because you didn't know better yet. That's fine. That's normal. The problem is the players saying it's unacceptable and harder than Ultimates because of TOXIC HARDCORES because they died 6 times and would rather cry about it than pick themselves up. Try to figure out what went wrong. And jump back into it.

You did good. You realize you'll improve as you do it more. You're not at all like the people complaining it's too hard because they refuse to use this basic human skill that you did.

[JadeCurtiss]

I will say over all though, for people that say these dungeons aren't any harder than earlier dungeons, I have to wonder which dungeons they're referring to. There's basically no 'stay out of the red' anymore, if you see the red, it's too late, you need to watch other things, which for me, gets very difficult, but as long as the Trusts remain as they are, I can struggle through it.

I'm not against this kind of difficulty, but it would be nice to have a way to practice boss mechanics or something other than 'keep repeating the dungeon over and over again'. I'd like that.

I suppose this is another case of the game not tutorializing properly because I see frequent mention of people not being able to read environmental telegraphs.

[Novarius]

Okay, finally got through the 7.3 dungeon. This was with a trust, which is the only way I play unless I'm forced not to.

I'm not against this kind of difficulty, but it would be nice to have a way to practice boss mechanics or something other than 'keep repeating the dungeon over and over again'. I'd like that.

Nice work on getting through the dungeon, what I think is needed is perhaps an extension to the Hall of the Novice to expand the tutorial or introduction of other new markers, I also think the devs need to give overworld mobs more "teeth" so to speak, if they had more health and did their own tells and there were mini-boss enemies for certain MSQ questlines that had a few tells then this would be a better onboarding processing for reading tells in dungeons, people would be more adept at it because they would have been learning this whilst questing so it wouldn't feel as jarring at the point they're encountering slightly more advanced tells in dungeons...

[TaleraRistain]

I also remember back to the time of SB release and the trouble people had on Shinryu. the dev team refused to make it easier and guess what, people got better at the fight over time. No reason why the same cannot be said here, as long as you are willing to put in the effort.

It wasn't entirely that people got better at it. It was that a lot of us got past it and got the tome gear locked behind it and so we were able to help those who had trouble getting through it on the gear available. They didn't ever decrease his difficulty, but you will notice the next expansion they gave us upgraded gear in the MSQ before the final fight. So they realized what the issue was and made the necessary changes.

[Aravell]

Honestly, I can see the point about dungeons being more difficult. While the mechanics themselves aren't anymore difficult than usual, DT dungeons tend to overlap mechanics more than older dungeons tend to do, so if someone is struggling and misses a visual tell, things can very easily spiral out as the panic. Special mention to the 3rd boss of Meso Terminal, where some of his tells are extremely hard to see due to his model being in the way.

I think they can easily solve this problem by giving duty support runs the same buff as the duty support trials where you can auto-raise twice per fight before resetting, then they can see what killed them and actually learn from their mistakes. Most people might be able to tell what killed them, but it's actually really hard to tell anything if you're panicked due to things seemingly cascading out of your control.

That said, I do have a problem with how some people are presenting their point, there's no reason or need to throw around vitriol at players who didn't struggle with this content.

[Volgia]

[QUOTE=ASkellington;6735473]Sorry if you liked it but I and many others did not./QUOTE]

But how can they like Endwalker dungeons when they haven't even played them....

[Tuchkin]

The quests of the main line should be so easy to complete that even my grandmother could complete them while playing on the controller with one hand. Because its for story, not for challenge. If you want more challenge - go ultimate. OR SE will continue to loose players.

[Mana_Azir]

Thats for the support all, i took your advice and went back to my old legacy data center and asked for help with it went as summoner tho,dying as dps is better then as heals,and altho i died thru that whole 4 boss fight they were nice and just kept rezzing and assisting.Figured i would give an update.

A reminder that the OP of this thread did indeed clear the dungeon after trying again, they got their clear 3 hours(ish?) after starting this thread so that was days ago by now. They took the advice and help of others and got through. They are a cool bean.

[JadeCurtiss]

The quests of the main line should be so easy to complete that even my grandmother could complete them while playing on the controller with one hand. Because its for story, not for challenge. If you want more challenge - go ultimate. OR SE will continue to loose players.

Again, I see this argument and I ask "Why play at all?" Watch the cutscenes on Youtube if you want literally no engagement.