Overtuned MSQ 4-mans and subpar story ends 12-year journey

[AlienDiplomat]

...what about the people who lose interest in the game because the required content puts you to sleep? Is there opinion not relevant

Apples and oranges. On one hand you are talking about raiders being bored because they can't have their daily roulette all be raids too. You HAVE raids. You HAVE savage/extremes. No one is stopping you from doing it.

Compare that to gating non-raiders out of even getting to play the base game story AT ALL because they are forced into raid mechanics in MSQ-required 4-mans.

Your problem is being inconvenienced because not ALL content is raid content. Their problem is being gated out of content they paid for for not being raiders.

[Supersnow845]

Apples and oranges. On one hand you are talking about raiders being bored because they can't have their daily roulette all be raids too. You HAVE raids. You HAVE savage/extremes. No one is stopping you from doing it.

Compare that to gating non-raiders out of even getting to play the base game story AT ALL because they are forced into raid mechanics in MSQ-required 4-mans.

Your problem is being inconvenienced because not ALL content is raid content. Their problem is being gated out of content they paid for for not being raiders.

Pretending that raids are a substitute for dungeon design is a complete fallacy I wish people would stop using here. There is an ocean of difference between savage and dungeons and a large large amount of people sit in that range.

So I ask you. Do you honestly, truly believe the upswing in difficulty in difficulty in DT is locking out more players than people who feel more engaged by the higher difficulty who sit in the casual range. Because to me the “engaged casual” has always been 14’s largest demographic and this is the only listening post I have seen any measure of pushback against DT’s casual content when compared to EW’s casual content

(Also I stopped doing savage in EW so let’s not pretend like I’m some selfish raider who wants all the content to be tailored to ME)

[AlienDiplomat]

...this is the only listening post I have seen any measure of pushback against DT’s casual content...

I could post you dozens of YouTube videos talking about this problem with DT difficulty uptick in required MSQ dungeons. It is easy enough to do a search. Read the comment section on any of these videos to see how many are frustrated by suddenly being expected to have great ping (when often it is the game itself even if they are on fiber) and to prog through memorization puzzles and raid mechanics in 4-mans required to advance the main base game story quest.

Anecdotally I could tell you about healers dropping out of dungeons frequently due to not having an hour+ to spend "progging" a 4-man roulette or MSQ dungeon when people repeatedly die to unimaginative, unintuitive insta-death mechanics.

The best suggestion I have is that SE adopt a "normal" and "heroic" style queue system for dungeons much like literally every other MMO on the market to be honest.

Players looking to be challenged in daily roulettes should have something to occupy their neurons. But casual players just trying to do the MSQ should never be gated out of the base game because streamers want more challenge.

This would be a simple solution to both problems. Which is why I prefaced this whole thing as not a "hard vs. easy" problem but a SE is being cheap and refusing to invest the baseline necessary revenue back into the game to ensure there is actual content available problem.

They are setting the player base against itself with this move to normalize difficulty across content to cheap out on having to design multiple tiers.

Which is why they deserve to continue to hemorrhage players/revenue.

[Supersnow845]

Anecdotally I could tell you about healers dropping out of dungeons frequently due to not having an hour+ to spend "progging" a 4-man roulette or MSQ dungeon when people repeatedly die to unimaginative, unintuitive insta-death mechanics.
.

Can you please provide an example here? Like genuinely. “Unimaginative, unintuitive insta-death mechanics”

In the nicest way possible this just reads like “boss casts ‘left room cleave’ for 10 seconds but the AOE marker only appears at the last second”. Like I agree having two different tiers of difficulty is better but still where are these evil unintuitive mechanics in dungeons? And I’m not that talented of a player myself

[AlienDiplomat]

Can you please provide an example here? Like genuinely. “Unimaginative, unintuitive insta-death mechanics”

Yuweyawata Field Station Boss 2: "Lost Hope"
Four random players need to rely on their ping and spatial relationship ability to line up the spinning hand in multiple directions to navigate through zig zag paths to the outside of the room or they are 1-shot.

Everyone I talk to hates the spinning hand mechanic, but they keep using it. Re: unimaginative + 1-shot.

Yuweyawata Field Station Boss 3: AOE Spirals
Absolute cluster of visually confusing animation effects. Very large AOE spirals fill up whole room rather than alternating rows as implied by the pre-AOE visuals (and every other similar mechanic in the game). Must locate the 1 or 2 small safe spaces instead. Very short duration between AOE circles appearing and damage vs. any MSQ-required 4-man prior to DT.

Could also point to the jump to Raging Claw on Boss 3 during the hole phase where you need to sprint to the tiny area behind him in time to avoid being killed, while avoiding falling in the insta-death hole, WHILE spread markers are dropped on you.

forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/516111-Yuweyawata-Field-Station-is-so-wrong

youtube.com/watch?v=D0mGNw_Ps6Q

Like I said I'm sure raiders and people that enjoy more challenging roulettes love this stuff, but it has no place locking people out of progressing the base game MSQ.

[Supersnow845]

Yuweyawata Field Station Boss 2: "Lost Hope"
Four random players need to rely on their ping and spatial relationship ability to line up the spinning hand in multiple directions to navigate through zig zag paths to the outside of the room or they are 1-shot.

Everyone I talk to hates the spinning hand mechanic, but they keep using it. Re: unimaginative + 1-shot.

Yuweyawata Field Station Boss 3: AOE Spirals
Absolute cluster of visually confusing animation effects. Very large AOE spirals fill up whole room rather than alternating rows as implied by the pre-AOE visuals (and every other similar mechanic in the game). Must locate the 1 or 2 small safe spaces instead. Very short duration between AOE circles appearing and damage vs. any MSQ-required 4-man prior to DT.

Could also point to the jump to Raging Claw on Boss 3 during the hole phase where you need to sprint to the tiny area behind him in time to avoid being killed, while avoiding falling in the insta-death hole, WHILE spread markers are dropped on you.

forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/516111-Yuweyawata-Field-Station-is-so-wrong

youtube.com/watch?v=D0mGNw_Ps6Q

Like I said I'm sure raiders and people that enjoy more challenging roulettes love this stuff, but it has no place locking people out of progressing the base game MSQ.

The AOE spirals are exactly the same mechanic we the last boss of the lunar subterene, like that isn’t even a unique mechanic. Hell lunar subterrane combines it with personal AOE’s while field station combines the personal AOE’s with the land worms which is a much easier mechanic

Lost hope is fair, you can argue that mechanic is overtuned but that’s also one mechanic, not the entirety of DT

[Eluvyel]

Yuweyawata Field Station Boss 2: "Lost Hope"
Four random players need to rely on their ping and spatial relationship ability to line up the spinning hand in multiple directions to navigate through zig zag paths to the outside of the room or they are 1-shot.

Everyone I talk to hates the spinning hand mechanic, but they keep using it. Re: unimaginative + 1-shot.

Yuweyawata Field Station Boss 3: AOE Spirals
Absolute cluster of visually confusing animation effects. Very large AOE spirals fill up whole room rather than alternating rows as implied by the pre-AOE visuals (and every other similar mechanic in the game). Must locate the 1 or 2 small safe spaces instead. Very short duration between AOE circles appearing and damage vs. any MSQ-required 4-man prior to DT.

Could also point to the jump to Raging Claw on Boss 3 during the hole phase where you need to sprint to the tiny area behind him in time to avoid being killed, while avoiding falling in the insta-death hole, WHILE spread markers are dropped on you.

forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/516111-Yuweyawata-Field-Station-is-so-wrong

youtube.com/watch?v=D0mGNw_Ps6Q

Like I said I'm sure raiders and people that enjoy more challenging roulettes love this stuff, but it has no place locking people out of progressing the base game MSQ.

These are some really confusing examples. The spinning hands are quite literally solved by pointing the camera where you want to go and then just holding both mouse buttons when the hand aligns with the camera direction. There is no skill involved here.

The AoE spirals at boss 3 play the same every time and are solved with standing at the very edge of the spiral and the grueling task of...walking forward into the middle blindly once the mechanic starts resolving. You can even get hit twice and not die.

[Powercow]

Yuweyawata Field Station Boss 2: "Lost Hope"
Four random players need to rely on their ping and spatial relationship ability to line up the spinning hand in multiple directions to navigate through zig zag paths to the outside of the room or they are 1-shot.

If you're a Ninja, Reaper, Dancer, Pictomancer or White Mage you have 0 reason to ever die to this mechanic. Those jobs all have "hey I need to get to the safe spot" buttons that completely ignore the spinning hand. Anyone else, also 0 reason because you can literally hit Sprint, press W, and no matter where you were in the field beforehand you'll make it to the wall before the explosion hits. Sure you'll take a little bleed and a damage down, but the bleed is easily healed through with self-defensives (or just heals), and let's face it you getting a damage down isn't going to affect anything.

[Kohashi]

I could post you dozens of YouTube videos talking about this problem with DT difficulty uptick in required MSQ dungeons.
Players looking to be challenged in daily roulettes should have something to occupy their neurons. But casual players just trying to do the MSQ should never be gated out of the base game because streamers want more challenge.

Can you please link me to those videos, and please do name some of those Streamers that actually want those changes or that have been vocal about that change on any of their stream.

Most people who stream FFXIV are divided largely into 2 groups: doing MSQ and doing raiding.

I cannot speak for all of course, but as somebody who engages with savage and Ultimates daily.. I do NOT! care about normal dungeons, and I don't think any normal dungeon comes anywhere close to what you find in any "hardcore" content. If you did any of that stuff, you would know that, but you just cry in forums because you couldn't breeze through a piece of content.

So what if you died, so what if you failed to do a mechanic? Where is the actual problem?

[KitiaraIornsight]

I could post you dozens of YouTube videos talking about this problem with DT difficulty uptick in required MSQ dungeons. It is easy enough to do a search. Read the comment section on any of these videos to see how many are frustrated by suddenly being expected to have great ping (when often it is the game itself even if they are on fiber) and to prog through memorization puzzles and raid mechanics in 4-mans required to advance the main base game story quest.

I'm about as casual of a player as you can get. And I have played all dungeon content mostly day one. There are no SAVAGE or extreme raid mechanics in DT msq dungeons. The only dungeon boss prior to the current dungeon's second boss that was even remotely difficult was the first boss of Alexandria which would punish players with high ping. I cleared all of DT on my Sage as my primary main job for the expansion. I have not stepped foot in savage since Alexander was current savage prog. These dungeons are not too hard. They do require you to pay attention and know your job, even as a casual player. We certainly can argue about server ticks needing to be considered heavier with certain AOE damage, but that's another subject all together. Even on a DPS job I have never spent more than 20 mins on any dungeon in DT, even when learning it. I don't know who you're playing with or grouping up with or what server you are on, but it is absolutely LAUGHABLE that you are calling DT dungeons savage. And that's coming from a player who's played since 2.0 PS3 beta herself. You're forgetting how many bosses and raids in ARR that used to have ZERO telegraphs while healers had to stance dance. At this point I've run through the newest dungeon and already had an instance when I queued in where everyone died on the 2nd boss and a DARK KNIGHT soloed that boss fight. If you have played as long as you have, could it be possible that after 12 years your personal age and reaction time may be part of the issue? I'm 44, I fully recognize my reaction time to stuff isn't what it used to be which is why I don't mess with ACTUAL extreme and savage content and just stick to MSQ, normal raids and 24 mans. While there is a lot of issues with DT, the increase in boss difficulty actually has made things more interesting after how brain dead easy SHB and EW dungeons were.